Birdsong, I had to laugh. There seem to be a lot of people that think there’s harm in seeing there’s more to physical life and death than meets the eye when it actually does meet the eye. I mean it’s one thing when it remains invisible but when it actually starts animating itself in the physical as well then people really start having problems don’t they? Then it’s schizophrenic or conspiracy theories or whatever…… They especially have problems wheln it shows to exist but they can’t control it to their money ambitions or territorial disputes or need to dominate and control people. And even worse than that, when it’s not going to control people with fear to their morals and limitations, people have big problems. Can’t exist. As if miracles are from the devil or something…..
Just to make sure you know I was completely joking regarding 666. Me and a really good friend were at one time making a whole book, like you would have on a coffee table, with jokes about 666. For example, put three sixes sequentially down three steps, and I called it “the descent of the beast,” and we had one in a perambulator. Still have it around here somewhere.
Unfortunately, my friend at one time was put on some sort of neuroleptic. She had moved into a new place, and thought she was being a bit florid, and unfortunately went you know where and got a you know what, and you know what. I think the only affect it had was that in the long run she couldn’t sleep did she not take it. She then had a heart attack just before covid. I think she was then already 78. I didn’t even know because her family did nothing but send her body for cadaver use at the local University’s medical department. I had been having really deep dreams, then heard she had passed on, and then heard her voice rather funny: “I guess I’m dead now,” or so. When we had talked about this she was an adamant atheist. She would say that she would become part of the earth, the sun etc. She is someone I had no sorrow for, because I knew she had a good life, despite everything, and she always did things her own way, completely. And she was a really really good friend… actually I have seen her since, I forgot.
Birdsong, I have an “important” message. Apparently, the Universe agrees with us regarding fear. Because when I clicked on this story, the listed number of views was 666. NOW it is 667. BIG CHANGE to let go of fear…… JUST IMAGINE had I not agreed with you?
That said. It remains unbelievable to me, not only how people behave, worshiping fear as a necessary tool for getting what they want, as if that doesn’t separate them from their “enemy” and in doing so limits their concepts from even knowing what they are aiming for. From not seeing themselves in their enemy, and how they invest in fear to keep that going, and kill themselves, potential, harmony and piece to keep such :justice” going to creating incredibly corrupt dark pockets in this “discipline” they say they think they need to implement this fear. You can NOT tell them they don’t know what they are doing, and you can’t tell them about the dark pockets controlling everything consequently. They would say those are conspiracy theories…
As I said: “Watch the News. Read the New York Times. And you have both factions of enemy and hero changing places on the other side so both can profit off of the gullibility of people.”
To be honest, I didn’t know the “NEW YORK TIMES” was so bad. I had gotten from my fathers books by Harold C Schonberg about the classic composers, and thought heh…… But reading this article, what they said about a whole list of things, and then other stuff not even mentioned that I know aren’t going to be reported correctly just about anywhere…….
I wouldn’t read the New York Times about ANYTHING political or scientific or medical, unless I wanted to read just one viewpoint, to see what THAT was, and would never find it having perspective… wouldn’t read it but for that one viewpoint ideology etc. Just to see what those people are saying, but I wouldn’t believe that I then knew in general…….
But that’s the way in general with such publications. Has been for years and for years. History itself. What’s in the books.
Most people are SO filled with fear thinking they have to know, have an opinion, have filled their brain with set input, or they aren’t safe, they wouldn’t know what’s going on to begin with, only see what they are told to believe.
In general it’s not believed that sacrificing a goat or a virgin is going to bring safety, that this will appease God, and yet why was this ever going on. I don’t think it was even about “God,” it was a means to traumatize people, to put fear in their lives and gain control. On the other side it was that they think they need these “authorities.” So and such is powerful because it will terrorize people into behaving. etc. etc…..
Now it’s more ideas like a “chemical imbalance,” or “terrorism,” or other “enemies,” and how much are such things produced in order to brainwash people? Mind control 101, make people think they are under attack and you can control them.
Watch the News. Read the New York Times. And you have both factions of enemy and hero changing places on the other side so both can profit off of the gullibility of people.
I hadn’t quite worked this out, I notice…. Once the psychiatrists, yet to be able to change a light bulb, and their chemical imbalance for knowledge regarding such…….Once they get that far (which as yet is of course completely mental, having added on how you change a light with what to do when others can’t understand this mental need), they intend to work on how you unclog a sink and other such riddlesâŚâŚ since an unclogged sink has a different effect than a light not going on, they are already pondering how to engage with such a problem, but they have determined it could [have] something different than [a variation of] having a chemical imbalance. Since a clogged sink isnât taking in what would flow into it, they think a probable cause is a fear of causing emptiness. And again, they are making headway, and thereâs compelling evidenceâŚ..
You see, a wheel with spokes, has to have a hole in the middle of it, to actually be functional, for an axle. The same you can’t fill up a cup that isn’t empty. And being that for them to fill the cup, or have the world spinning around their axles, and how they want to make sure that such evil influences akin to the the anti-psychiatry don’t get into axles and empty cups (what would happen to carbonation for example?) that a clogged sink has to do with?
With fear of emptiness…
But as yet, they haven’t gotten permission to pour their wisdom, or rather their method and medications into the sink, being that the intent is to unclog it [this will make your sink want to unclog and be empty to be filled with our treatment and wisdom was mentioned as part of a label]. Although they HAVE looked into advertising quite abundantly the powers of their medications to alleviate the fear of emptiness [especially regarding the fear of being empty for them] and then also the danger of being filled with the wrong treatment, but found that the sink allegory could promote people thinking THAT is where their drugs belong, once the sink is unclogged. But they are making headway in how to explain this because it is so circuitous.
I wonder whether the anti-antipsychiatry contingency is going to say that Bruce Levine is promoting taking a whack at psychiatrists whenever they try to have a creative idea in how to heal the multitudes…….
ON THE OTHER HAND!
There’s this experiment famous in psychology how when you tell people to give another person an electrical shock when they get a wrong answer, how many people keep on doing that EVEN when the person is said to have a heart problem and it’s clear they are being put in danger, although that was a setup: actually, actors. But that is FAMOUS I don’t think that ONE psychiatrist wouldn’t know about this, or almost none, since it’s part of any basic psychology course, and YET how many of them do EXACTLY that…… with their patients…….. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment#:~:text=Beginning%20on%20August%207%2C%201961,sounds%20for%20each%20shock%20level.
How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
None of them have as yet, they are still trying to prove it has a chemical imbalance, and since that hasn’t panned out have changed-to/are-also-trying-out something called brain circuitry. But, they are making headway, there’s compelling evidence, light bulbs are complicated devices, just like the brain, which they are working on figuring out just to make sure you know HOW they are going to end up changing the lightbulb, when they have figured that out, because if your brain isn’t working properly you wouldn’t know how they change a lightbulb. They are used to trying to explain things to people, and then having to work on the problem of it not being understandable. So, they first have to make sure they know what to do would you not understand how they are changing a lightbulb, then they will actually work on changing a lightbulb, but they are making headway.
Once they get that far, they intend to work on how you unclog a sink and other such riddles…… since an unclogged sink has a different effect than a light not going on, they are already pondering how to engage with such a problem, but they have determined it could something different than [a variation of] having a chemical imbalance. Since a clogged sink isn’t taking in what would flow into it, they think a probable cause is a fear of causing emptiness. And again, they are making headway, and there’s compelling evidence…..
THANKS! I’ll refresh myself on sine and cosine and all of the geometry stuff. Because as I RECALL all they did was teach us this stuff, and make graphs, and never for any purpose….. That really helps, it makes it multidimensional, and I could look for other ways — what was hammered into my head in highschool one hour a day for a whole year — that it has purpose.
Just to be facetious, but hate speech, the different words to insult people from different cultures, races, sexual identities, ages, what’s called “intelligence,” ideas of beauty do those all boil down to the same, or it would be that psychiatric diagnosis have less insight than what’s already lack of insight?
I mean it’s standard knowledge that hate speech doesn’t define anything. Psychiatric diagnosis supposedly does. Does that make such labels worse than being wrong, being that it defines something as being considered right, but it’s wrong. I mean in general when people are treated with such there’s less recovery than when they are “treated.” But then, I might not be using the right way to point this out, whether they come out as the same “word,” as you explained, that might be that they all come out as being “a disease,” when hate speech comes out as being wrong insight.
Dear dear Andrew Seefeldt. I did a search for alternative psychiatrists in Australia, and got for example a hit for this place https://zenwavesclinic.net/integrative-psychiatrists-sydney/ I don’t know if they would be able to take over your case, and listen to your story, and help you thus. But it’s worth a try, perhaps. You aren’t alone, we’re with you. There’s always an answer, despite it’s “crazy” to think so. All that can happen within this “impossibility” called “crazy”…… Don’t give up……
Just to be clear, although I’ve already responded quite floridly, what I was referring to regarding that there’s too much focus on the physical, I was not saying that one should disregard what psychiatric medications do, and herald how they suppress “symptoms.” One CERTAINLY should not discount that statistically everything gets worse in the long run. What I was saying that if someone actually allows some legroom for whatever was initially going on to look for treatment, and instead want to understand why they just aren’t fitting into what’s called consensual reality deportment, statistical based norms, or the status quo, or even their idea of how life was supposed to play out, that perhaps allowing that, and not wanting to fit in will do more for them than they could have conceived of in thinking it was disrupting their life.
I wonder if it’s too much to explain this, because I’m interested. How does it turn out that all these different psychiatric diagnosis which clearly are supposed to be separate distinct diseases, how do they turn out to be the same word? I mean, we all sort of know this that they aren’t really based on concrete science, and there’s no consensus between different psychiatrists that they end up diagnosing the same symptoms with the same disease, but how does that turn into them all being the same word?. If it’s too much to explain don’t worry about it I’m just curious.
Um, someone goes to a psychiatrist because they have something going on in their life, or others think there’s something going on. Whether they feel they are traumatized, or people in their environment think they are crazy (or even stuff that happened they can’t talk about, with others, and think the psychiatrist will help); and then would the psychiatrist come along with: “oh,we’ll fix this, we’ll traumatize your brain too, then you’ll have a traumatized brain and an environment that’s……”
My first therapist I had (after years and years of staying away from any of them I heard of a place that was reasonably alternative), who was a real piece of work. She was so impressed with me, she wanted to use me as a peer, was going to start her own company, and has since. But after telling her all I knew regarding antidepressants, she said she wanted to start the company so that supposedly vulnerable indigenous people could get antidepressants earlier (!?!?!?!?!?!?). She saw some kind of profit from such, and wanted to see whether I would be for that, she KNEW what I said, I had clearly explained the science of it. No, I didn’t become one of her workers. But we had talked quite a bit, and I had told her stuff regarding what’s going on in secret government programs, or something to that extent (I don’t even really remember what I said, I think mind control), and she ended up in a plane going back from applying for some position in California, and the guy next to her was a psychiatrist, she found out, and started telling him about what I had told her. He told her that that stuff really goes on, apparently he had people coming to him regarding such…….
How is HE going to help them traumatizing their brain even further, with meds” not that I know whether he did that but……. Go to a psychiatrist because something is going on in your life you can’t talk about and you stand the chance of…….
I was just brushing my teeth, by the way, and then remembered this also, after realizing, one goes to a psychiatrist and…. and then this story. I know that stuff goes on regarding such programs also…….. But you just touch in with this prevalence of hidden stuff regarding psychiatry, words warped to be used to do the opposite of what they mean, a labyrinth of of crazy assumptions, or outright deceptions, people doing things detached from the outcome calling others non reality based…. I just touch in with it, and there I go with a whole cascade or memories and then yet again another realization of how “crazy” it is….
Still, from all of above and how you honored me with a quote, but I still think that we’re not dealing with physical disease, and even, for those that have got stuck in the system and have said damage, to focus too much on the physical part, might be getting away from what can heal. Because the real “symptoms” of “mental illness” can be stuff that leads back to what’s beyond the physical, and EVEN with the horrible damage psychiatric drugs can cause, and the trauma of treatment, when that stuff that was originally there is allowed FINALLY the space to express itself, it can possibly balance all of that out in a way that wouldn’t be happening if the focus remain on the damage the psychiatric drugs caused…. There’s still something beyond all of that, I think IMHO… a lot of people have recovered, perhaps more than even physical science should say was possible given the damage the drugs do, not that I’m EXCUSING such damage it’s just……. Maybe what was going on was never a disease to begin with, and didn’t need…… there is that element also
Thanks Kat, I try. You brought it up how even the symptoms that emerge from the “medications” are something else than what was there in the first place before such disabling of natural functions. And then the psychiatrists don’t even see what’s coming from the “medications,” and tally that up as more of the original “disease” emerging.
One tries to use a word like “disease” or “symptom,” and….. the symptoms of the real disease (drugs disabling natural functions) are made out to be symptoms of what was made out to be a disease but was trauma expressing itself (so it can be known, so one can heal knowing), or the “symptom” was simply someone that had perspective beyond what’s considered possible is a supposed symptoms…..
Thanks for pointing that out, because I would say that too, that the drugs cause mental illness (longterm, side effects, withdrawal symptoms, etc.), but then I wasn’t always separating the two. Because of what the drugs do to people, and THEY [the psychiatrists] call it mental illness, and even THEY would they have their eyes open or were they interested in reality could SEE what’s happening, which expresses itself scientifically and statistically, and so one would think you could say to them: “EXCUSE ME your treatment is causing what you say you started treatment for…….” But even beyond that the disease the drugs cause can be proven to exist, the other can’t really. So, it’s even the psychiatrists listing yet again something else, what THEY caused in their treatment, as yet again needing treatment… as if it’s the same thing, and they don’t even see they are causing it, something else, and label it as what one couldn’t really call a disease to begin with. But what the drugs cause IS a disease. So what is “mental illness” the epidemic of psychiatric drug use? THAT would perhaps be accurate. Get rid of the medications, and there wouldn’t be what’s verified to be a chemical imbalance in “mental illness.” There are verifiable chemical imbalances coming from the
medications,” if you want to get rid of that, and treat chemical imbalance in “mental illnesses” get rid of the medications. THAT would be taking what they say they are doing, and being rational with it. Being sane with it. Being reality based with it. You can’t even express the truth, can’t disagree with them (one has to say not all of them, but there you go, it already isn’t about science) without them calling you non compliant, or having anosognosia, ODD. A danger to yourself and others etc… because of what THEY have caused, and you’re not going along with that, for them to see if you end up in the nice cubby hole of complacent compliance, the minority they cherry pick ( I wish I could find a better way to describe this, as I love cherries ) to force it on others, while the majority is consistent with the spike, the epidemic…. Despite that we do have insides, there is an anatomy there…..
I haven’t even been psychiatrically drugged, by the way. I only remained with said “symptoms” and was put on disability. I was just disturbed, at first when diagnosed, like anyone, but then given the situation my brain had to start making up whole figurative arrangements of inner experiences that were so beyond societal norms it scared me, unfortunately, and then one needs a health brain to figure it out. And by some magic of chance I managed to somehow avoid forced treatment, just by a hair’s breadth sometimes, it seems. And it takes a healthy brain to figure out what’s going on, or just to allow the brain itself to find answers, with all the amazing abilities the brain has, what we are given as a gift….. And it’s worth figuring out, it’s amazing and awe-inspiring how what’s made out to be something crazy to turn off is something completely different: perspective that’s liberating, florid, an expression of who we really are, what happens by itself…..
If the symptoms of mental illness are warning signs, or beyond that the beginning of how you transcend trauma, what “psychiatric” medications do is actually cause trauma, to the body, and also to the emotions, and so again these social fabrications that everything is wonderful, and if you show signs of making society loose it’s grip on its fantasies that it’s all ship shape (as long as you get the rewards for being brainwashed), then, then you supposedly have a mental illness when not supporting said fantasy, and then you get further traumatized by treatment. And then we can go back to whether trauma creates mental illness, but then you have to see it as a mental illness rather than what it is.
“Sadness” “not being able to concentrate” “supposedly non reality based thoughts” thoughts which in reality are more thoughts than the programming that’s supposed to be attached to the physical (or it’s non reality based supposedly again), or just programming in general (thoughts which aren’t thoughts) which is how often is it NOT even attached to the physical it uses to be objective but just more social constructs such as take a pill and it will heal you, kill the enemy (isn’t he then also supposed to want to kill you and see you as such) etc. etc. “do what the boss says, he’s the authority, or the school or the church…..” Even grief for example, in ways I wonder what is going on, even myself, whether it’s we’ve lost part of ourselves and miss it in others who have gone back to the source, and thus we’re reminded of the love there….. or it’s just a remembering of the value in life, but it’s all transcending to another level, not something to turn off, as if it can be turned off, and that’s what the drugs are doing…. we’re meant to see the value in life, all of it, no matter how we would have wanted it different when it’s completed safe in forever to grow there without interference….. But even something completely labeled as “delusions” or “non reality based” or psychotic” etc. can have more of a poetry or resonance or when looked at can be more reasonable than what’s considered sane, because it relates to thought not to programming, and the craziest thing could have a symbolism that when understood changes a person’s inner ingrained reflexes (because it’s relating to the inside, but as soon as it’s not understood by others they get alarmist and it’s a mental illness, as if we have no insides), change your reflexes by looking at the inside and it changes the future and so is more objective than anything tangible to what’s called reality, while that “reality doesn’t have such a relationship with the meaning of life, time, certainly not the future other than what’s made out to be safety will cause the problem to repeat itself…… Or even just symptoms that these medications aren’t helping, they don’t treat a chemical imbalance, then programming would say that’s anogsognosia, when in reality the anosognosia is not being aware of what the drugs do, or not being ALLOWED to be aware. That’s oppression. Does someone get “psychotic” because of antidepressants that’s a WARNING signal what the trauma is they aren’t supposed to see is from the antidepressants, and the antidepressants could be because someone got on ADHD meds and started having repetitive behaviors which was labeled as yet another “symptom” of a mental illness rather than AGAIN a sign the medications were traumatizing….. All sets of behaviors that really are annoying for society, like the one organism of a group that starts to evolve from the rest (and is in touch with the future needs), that gets targeted for not being part of the program. Not part of the complacent mob. Or when a simple warning light or signal goes on. A smoke alarm, and people turn it off and act like everything is fine, when a fire could be on the loose; or in a car, when you need oil or brake fluid (I don’t drive don’t really know so I’m improvising), but then turn it off and you don’t have that annoying flashing light but the car starts breaking down after awhile. What warning signal are you going to turn off then? The car can’t function anymore. But with “psychiatry” there could be a whole matrix of warning signals all turned off till the next one emerges until the body breaks down. And the real warning signals are made out to be something to turn off while society enabled by psychiatry creates these fake warning signals involving “symptoms,” making society quite paranoid and alarmist. That’s ignoring what the medications are doing, or in the beginning why a person was having “symptoms” which were an attempt the brain and the soul have of warning there’s something going on. Then you have the vehicle damaged in another way when the warning signals weren’t attended to, the response trying to again warn what’s REALLY going on.
And what are these “symptoms” that start the whole domino effect until the vehicle is destroyed. It could be trauma, something they can’t express yet and get no help with understanding the symptoms (can a wound have symptoms also, and not be a disease? If you know what’s hurting you, what’s causing the wound, then you know rather than be unaware to get away from it or make it stop or take other measures) or it could just be someone knows something that’s considered out of bounds. Even at a precognitive level, or what is supposedly impossible to know although it pans out like psychic senses. People tend to turn off, that’s also too much for their “safety” to fit into the norm. And so it can be traumatizing even knowing such things and wanting to find where you can express them, or something on the inside emerging that tries to point out what needs the space to emerge. What needs to be understood at a cognitive level where the “symptoms” are pointing out something’s going on. Whatever is going on, the “psychiatric symptoms” could be what the soul and brain do to transcend trauma, which is hardly a disease, but then you add psychiatric drugs and more trauma, yeah, you’re going to have the brain disabled, all of the symptoms, and these ARE symptoms (symptoms of a disease, not a wound, a wound isn’t a disease) as you quoted from Breggin: “symptoms similar to those of someone with a traumatic brain injury after one month on these drugs. After a few months, individuals will exhibit a limited repertoire of verbal, emotional and behavioural responses. Frequently misdiagnosed as âmental illnessâ, these manifestations are due to the personâs drug-induced cognitive disability: a chronic brain impairment directly attributed to their psychiatric prescription (Breggin, P. (2012).” and then you have the stuff labeled as symptoms (of a disease rather than trauma needing attention or a wound) which are the warning signals, the brain and the soul trying to get away from, transcend the trauma, to warn the self something is going on, and that’s then labeled as the disease, rather than………
And the most insane thing is how they try to make out they are tending to emotional wounds, or such trauma, and then in reality traumatize the brain (and the emotions themselves whose expression is made out to be a disease), all while saying they are treating trauma……
Like creating a chemical imbalance saying they are treating one, and then like you said, the disabling of the brain can be seen as negative symptoms of say “schizophrenia” or any of the “diseases” that a person can’t take care of themselves anymore ( I wonder what the rising costs are, someone on usually 1000 dollars of medications, and then the extra money from the state to be warehoused in foster care like labrats, is that like $4000 a month? 3000? 5000? 2000? along with their advertising, the everything of people maintaining this on all sides, which often makes out it’s charitable and Hollywood chimes in with their “celebrities”… how many people have ended up shuffling around such?)……. and then what is any dissent from that? ODD, OCD, anogsognosia (which I already mentioned), non compliance, being “weird”, being ridiculed, being shunned, bizarre alarmist ideas others have along with totally unreality based conclusions gossip and propaganda……… and you’re supposed to want to be part of such a “society” in order to be “functional” safe” and “sane”!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
While the edit function is still on, as I was doing dishes thinking about how much this all costs. If there’s just 1,000,000 people that cost the government 1,000 dollars (often the “meds” alone are that much, I don’t know how much the “gov” pays for that but…..) that’s one billion. Add everything else, then estimate the loss of intelligence, functionality, ingenuity, evolutionary value with the disabling of natural functions of the brain, and added to that the phobia in society against anything that’s not part of the programmed norm adding to this loss with the amount of people who aren’t even taking disabling controlled substances called psychiatric drugs but still turn off part of their brain, their self….are controlled by fear (and social norms and lobbying) and ignore the warning signals………… are we at a Trillion yet?
Dear J Munro, all the years I’ve been going through what I’ve been going through, I have frequented drop in centers for marginalized, or people with a mental health label. I have to a bit stop myself from going florid would I starts to say what I’ve seen regarding what you’ve mentioned regarding “deep muddy waters,” and then also how both you and your husband had started giving in to the system, because things got so bad, and you didn’t know it was the “medications.” Somehow you got out, and the truth of what was going on dawned through. What I’ve seen in drop in centers though, over years and years of encountering very very human people is heart breaking. I’m just glad you got away from such “treatment.”
As is the case to often all over the place, workers at drop in centers can be TERRIBLY misinformed regarding medications, especially when they are given to people already labeled as being disabled. All they see is withdrawal symptoms would someone want to get off of what’s disabling them, and then people that remain compliant are rewarded, just like you see in any environment where you get a pat on the head for being part of the gang. It was shocking for me, what happened when I simply mentioned people getting off of their medications. Someone on antidepressants had come to the head of one drop in center, trying to get off of them and all she could do was cry, which was the head’s reason to not even have any group to help people (as if everyone would have such a reaction, the person went back on the meds, I donât know how a group helping people would disrupt THAT, but the head was on antidepressants I found out). Other than that it was a nice lady, but she herself was on antidepressants, her children also, her husband had committed suicide, and then there was no mention why HE would have done that, or the environment etc. A bit of stuff going on in the background here. As you see, I start going on about this and it gets florid. Other workers, you couldn’t get them to even acknowledge what withdrawal symptoms had to do with it, or that the medications caused the chemical imbalance which hadn’t existed before “treatment” by any discernible disease. etc. etc. Some workers of course were on “medications” and couldn’t get off of them but to me clearly depicted behavior that would explain their problems, and their addiction to a disabled brain. I couldnât get them to be articulate beyond a certain point, regarding all sorts of stuff. I got one lady off who was a secretary, and she had done this quietly, I think first denying it, and then she left the place. She had gotten herself off of everything, and just said something about the “government,” and that she wasn’t going to take a bunch of stuff they paid for or something to that extent. At that drop in center there were people stuck in the system, even got rewards for playing the part of a poor helpless sort of pet of the system, until they really expressed what was going on. One guy who everyone thought the cutest, and would make little paintings with cute sayings on it was adored by everyone, but then one day he wasn’t so nice. He must have had irritable bowl syndrome from the 1000 dollars of meds he was on, which is easy to look up or know, and he actually had erupted, I think with the anger, frustration, oppression of what at one moment the feeling of that was, and actually taken a bowl movement out of his pants and thrown it at the wall or something. He of course was simply barred from the art room, no one ever looked into why he would do that, there was only extreme gossip regarding him. I could go on and on. And I’m not condoning throwing your sh@#$@#()t at the walls, there just was absolutely no perspective on it, and anyone a bit enlightened would start to see further. You disable someone’s brain from even knowing what’s going on, tell them lies about chemical imbalances not saying the only real proof beyond that con job is the drugs cause chemical imbalance by disabling natural functions of the brain, and then the abusers are suddenly heroes taking care of these poor victims while they are part of the system abusing them and keeping them down. It’s hair raising, just to see that, just to see how brainwashed people are. At another drop in center, where it was better in ways, but not too much, there were numerous people who would come there who some time in their life years and years ago had had an extreme emotional reaction, a normal reaction to something in their life. Whether this played out in a fantasy for a day, or just they themselves feeling there was something wrong with them, they ended up somehow being predatory to the mental health system, and went from point A to B to C to D until they for the rest of their life ended up in foster care facilities with nothing to do the rest of the day but go to a drop in center. Who knows how they’d been used as lab rats for some, as the drug companies always said, elusive chemical imbalance they were sure they would find, they had compelling evidence, they were making headway, the brain is a very complex organ etc. etc.. I would try to talk to these people, but there was no ability for them to even realize what really happened, how there was never any real understanding of what had happened to them years ago, or they maybe didn’t even really remember other than that they had been deemed mentally ill. And none of them had any real symptoms at all anywhere anymore, other than they thought they couldn’t take care of themselves, or were so doped up they wouldn’t be able to. Or theyâd have their medications changed, who knows why, maybe they said the wrong thing to the psychiatrist about who knows what like âI get anxious when I hear the news,â and so one lady suddenly was falling asleep all the time, because of the meds, somehow this had been resolved, I donâ t know how. At that drop in center there had been a head of it that would understand the truth, but I have to stop going on about other things there that were ridiculous or add two more pages….. People that had simply given up on life, didn’t have any symptoms anymore, but acted like good little children, a bit comparable to obeying church rules or what have you I can’t think of to make comparisons with (going to school every day, watching the same movies and TV everyone else does?)….. and went around circles believing…….like actors playing a role, but not even one that had any real meaning……. One can only wonder what a percentage of the “success” stories the system puts out come from such people.
“muddy waters” and I’m only really taking this lightly what I’ve shared….
Then there are the stories of the people that didn’t make it. The mental health system would say they need more ability to force treat people, more research along the same lines where their ideology hasn’t worked out, but the “ideology” sounds good. “Chemical imbalance,” lets forget that the drugs cause that, and that’s science, but lets make out we’ll find it in the disease, which has never emerged yet. A friend of mine who I knew for years, saw her struggle trying to find equilibrium. She could be fine for years, even have a job, a house, a car, friends. Then something would erupt. She just wanted to be normal and it wasn’t working. She had come from a tumultuous family where the father was violent towards the mother, and I’ve detailed in another post how the mother then tried to coach her that the father had sexually molested her, and a “therapist” also, who could just put forth his suspicions. It turned out it was during a time when she was on a boat trip with the father and a sailor had sexually molested her, but for years, again the muddy waters. And of all things, the stuff with “the system” started when she went to college. From what she told me all that was going on was that she was kissing a boy in the halls, and a friend of her father’s, who was a professor, saw her, and called him up, and they had her committed. The father, mind you, was a notorious womanizer, actually. The poor girl ended up being carted around for a year in different institutions, which the rest of her life seemed to be exposing what that does to one. FOR A YEAR because she had been kissing a boy in the halls, and some teacher thought this shows some sign of who knows what, to have that turn into a whole faction of other “professionals” making up who-knows-whats for a whole year. There was then the anger against the system, the loss of understanding regarding how the “medications” kept her from finding equilibrium and the abject fear of what happens when she would lose it, and then the part of her that just wanted to be normal. I know what it’s like, you look at everyone else being able to be a cog in the wheel, part of the machinery, and then you see how you’ve failed, until you just finally start seeing what’s really going on despite that like 95 or 99% of the people “making it” are a bit too much akin to androids, and you could get them to believe anything just as long as they get rewards from the system, regardless of science, truth, real insight etc. Lilly would say she just wanted to be normal. A fantasy she couldn’t let go of. https://www.lifestorynet.com/obituaries/lisbeth-lilly-lipke.29513#memories And when you read her obituary, when it says: â.We thank all of you, especially those who were so present with Lilly this past year and month. You know who you are and no words can adequately convey our gratitude for your kindness and love.â those actually are the people that once again had her committed, force committed into an asylum, into a situation that had caused the problems, and I had warned them what might happen, that they would lose her, and had tried to state clearly regarding the science of what was going on. In fact, she had fled her house. They had invited me and her for tea and some cake, because they wanted to confront her, they got us into their house, then asked me to leave because they wanted toâŚ.. I said that was funny (they had lied to me) said I wouldnât do that, and left. I waited a few minutes, and she came BOUNDING across the street in terror, tried to get away on my bike which was locked, instead pushed down on the pedals so hard she broke her achilles tendon, and a sort of chase scene ensued. They invaded her house, acted like eager pundits to get rewards, called her case manager, and then I had enough of it, called to THAT house where one of those âfriendsâ answered, and said that Lilly clearly didnât want them in her house, and if they didnât leave I would call the police. Then the lady who had answered the phone said in a sarcastic tone: âOh, would youâŚ..?â And I knew theyâd lay a whole schpiel on the police. So I never called the police. But then I was passing her house, and the police were there, the whole dark cloud around it. Lilly of course by then quite disassociated emotionally from what was going on, talking to the police, saw me, and said to a police man who I was, and that I was a really nice person. The policeman then told me to âmove onâ or Iâd be arrested. I asked whether I could ask him why, and he said I would be disrupting an investigation. So, I went home, and there actually called non emergency police to tell them the facts, of how people had trespassed into her house, etc. the police at the non emergency desk then told me she had been doing things which she hadnât. TOTALLY DIFFERENT POLICE also. They said she had been taking off her clothes in public. Turns out later that wasnât true, but as soon as she FLED these âfriends,â the FIRST THING one of them said is that she was taking off her clothes, running around naked. Apparently, they then feel free to tell the police this, which is a lie. And I have to say that I havenât really heard ANY stories regarding someone being committed where there isnât such going on, whether much more minimal or worse. This âcouldâ happen so it is happeningâŚ. And people have done, and do this to me. ADDED to that, when she was in the asylum, because her achilles tendon was ripped, her leg was swollen up to the knee, and in a âmedicalâ setting they NEVER even looked at it. DESPITE it was swollen to the knee. In a medical setting! The result was that when she got out, she couldnât walk properly anymore. But they did actually drug her up so that when she was feeling âniceâ enough to convince them she was OK (she actually told me later she knew how to do this), I was told she wouldnât even remember if she had taken her pills or not. I never asked why she was supposed toâŚâŚ In the beginning her friends were all coming at me, like I was stupid or impossible, and I was told: âLillyâs not taking her medications,â and I replied: âThey donât work scientifically or statistically.â I should have said something regarding whether they could help her get OFF of them, say titrate etc. And later one of them actually AGREED with me that the pills only make things worse, YET they had her committed. Her mother ALSO, who said sheâd looked into it and the only way, according to her, Lilly could be helped was in a very expensive place, like for Hollywood people, and they couldnât afford that. Instead she AGAIN had her daughter committed. And it was a whole GROUP of people, if they had collectively actually cared to read the material regarding the âmedicationsâ the âtreatment;â how to help someone that the treatment hadnât worked for, how to help them would they want to get off of said âtreatment,â had allowed Lilly to just say whatever was going on instead of scaring her that ended up being what it wasâŚâŚ. It was a whole group of people, many of the agreeing regarding the âmedications,â what might have happened where they not aggressively against and condoning violence AGAINST the truth when it wasnât convenient to them? The last time I talked with her, before she committed suicide, she showed me how she couldnât sit still, and her arm would start shaking, then told me how the psychiatrist at the institution had said: âYou either take this, and that and that, or youâre not getting out of here.â and so she was on a whole cocktailâŚ..Old story, whole history of what CAUSED the problems they were supposedly fixingâŚ.. A different friend of hers I ran into a few times walking his dog a few years ago told me she had been to him, had gone to a doctor, and the doctor said they couldnât fix her achilles tendon anymore. The friend had tried to tell her that she should try another doctor, but she had become so despondent by thenâŚâŚ
She told me that when they confronted her, having to deal with all of such, she had told them she was the second coming. What does A Course in Miracles say regarding the second coming? One of her âfriendsâ being someone who said she liked A Course in Miracles, and when I had some minor critique of it wouldnât hear it: âThe old view of the Second Coming saw evil as a real force with a terrible energy of its own, a will in opposition to God, a will which had to be combated and overcome. The Course, in seeing the Second Coming as the correction of mistakes, does not see evil as a real force. Darkness is not a thing, a substance, it is merely the absence of light.â âthe Second Coming is the return of our awareness of our true Self. â You can do a google search with âWhat does A Course in Miracles say about the second coming,â and you get all sorts of replies akin. Some guy who was supposed to be so âChristianâ teaching in a âChristianâ college immediately said he would call the police, etc. Later, during the chase scene, when I told him that they were harassing her, he actually tried to threaten me with calling the police, and I asked him for what, telling the truth, than he got dramatic and told me to stop⌠Stop with what? Telling the truth? That being BEFORE I found out they lied to the policeâŚâŚ
Well, and so whatâs the second coming? One day, I wanted to go to the beach and thought I would ask Lilly to take us, since she had a car, then within a short time she called me talking about going to the beach, that we had a conversation about this. I didnât disqualify that I had thought about it as a conversation, but she responded a bit tragic, as if that was too muchâŚ..
I was involved with yet ANOTHER âspiritualâ healing group, and beforehand thought Iâd contact Lilly, again in my mind. Not even thinking about what I just shared. And THAT group was about near death experience stuff, so I thought Iâd ask Lilly what Heaven was like. She told me that the good things remain, it grows. I imagine like the flowers each Spring. The grow, the remain, become part of foreverâŚâŚ. They donât flush down the whateverâŚâŚâŚ
âthe second coming,â that was put in an asylum for saying soâŚâŚâŚ.
Another friend of mine, who is stuck in the system had called me up: âLilly committed suicide,â and I said and thought: âSheâs not dead, sheâs just not in the mental health system anymore,â and then, after that brief call, I took a wand I had, waved it in the air, and there was a holographic image of Lilly, and she wanted to know how I did that. I didnât reply but with a dimple, and I demuredâŚ..
How that works it ways through the consciousness. Sometimes I thought that she had somehow reanimated the body, after it was pronounced dead, and there was this wonderful community that allowed her to survive, like a conduit showing thereâs another way. Consequently, sometimes I saw her there, when probably it was her spirit body, and didnât find it necessary to separate that from the physical, so thought thatâŚâŚ.. Obviously it wasnât necessary for me to see herâŚ. But that doesnât mean resurrections donât occur, even on THIS earth⌅
I don’t even know what to say about this. Treatment for schizophrenia statistically in the long run makes things worse. Now they find it feasible to listen to some machine that is 90% of the time wrong so what is this going to do the whole epidemic they’ve been making, and thus more schizophrenics because of more treatment and then they’re going to get more drastic trying to prevent all of this by causing more of it? And then when they bleep in hearing voices this more accurate but does that say about society? Aren’t hearing voices something that goes on inside yourself or you’re trying to process something ,God forbid. No you can’t process anything you have to be told what stuff is for example one is supposed to believe all this and not look at how ridiculous this is all going on about 90% accuracy on a machine for a disease that basically is fictitional in ways, where the treatment causes more of the problem… Just add concepts such as drugs artificial intelligence and voila…… Oh this is feasible…. !? We’re making headway. There’s compelling evidence that……
After reading the last comment of mine, it being posted I think I need to clean that up.
My point was that itâs like a lobbyistâs dream when the treatment they are promoting is hidden to be statistically in correlation with the spike of the problem. When you donât tell people that the medications cause chemical imbalance, but tell them that they treat a chemical imbalance to make them keep taking the medication, then youâve hidden whatâs really going on. And then they add on the untruth that itâs like diabetes medications. Or any other medications that actually does treat scientifically a chemical imbalance rather than causing one to suppress âsymptoms,â of whatâs labeled as a psychiatric condition. If short term, the brain disabling affect of causing a chemical imbalance suppresses symptoms, this trumps the fact that in the long run, the chemical imbalance brought on by the medications makes everything worse. And then people become more and more paranoid of any symptoms of mental illness, because of the spike. In themselves and in others. The media chimes in and highlights bad cases, often people that already were treated in a way in correlation with the problem to say that that means more treatment rather than what science and statistics show. They fail to see the difference between what the medications cause and what life itself causes. And then people who at first had what life causes end up having what the medications cause, and so people think itâs all part of the same ball game, when in reality without the medications added thereâs more recovery of what life was causing. Statistics show that, but not if you say that people are discovering they have chemical imbalances to excuse giving them one with treatment, and lie to them otherwise they wonât continue treatment.
And people are totally brainwashed, their first knee jerk reaction, if not enlightened, is to believe what correlates with the spike of the problem, what correlates with causing the paranoia they have, that this is how to get it to stop. And they think they have to implement that, police it, convince others, politically get the system to be able to force treat others.
And these violent acts of supposedly âuntreatedâ mental health patients werenât occurring BEFORE they were âtreatedâ to any degree comparable to whatâs also become a whole spike. Cat has nicely shared studies that prove correlation, simply with the medications. I donât think that was there before the implementation, and YET itâs mainly made out to be what would stop it, when thatâs AGAIN the same series of 1) create short term suppression of symptoms 2) say itâs treating a chemical imbalance while knowing itâs doing the opposite 3) profit off of the phobia when things get worse, which correlates with the âmedicationsâ not the âdisease.â 4) fill corporate media with scare tactics, while suppressing those that are part of the statistics that recover without âmedicationsâ while without the âmedsâ thereâs more recoveryâŚ. 5) when putting a person on medications make sure it falls under medical confidentiality, so that one canât really determine causality.
Can you imagine the same going on with say heart medications, or any other where thereâs compelling evidence there could be a causal link, but the information is withheld. I actually a bit cringe using the word âcompellingâ because how often this was used all the years the drug companies made out they would find proof thereâs the chemical imbalance going on that their drugs fix, but they havenât been able to. THAT they will look into and find nothing, but the other side they donât even consider⌅
We always have to hear stories of how this drug helped so and so, while at the same time, someone who got off of their drug often has to do it without telling the psychiatrist, or their family, and thus falls off of the radar. Also the whole spectrum of treatments that arenât drug related, or arenât given WITH drugs, or could be INSTEAD, this isnât even really offered, so no one really knows what would have happened to the cherry picked minority where the drugs have helped, one doesnât know if something else would have helped them, and then beyond that the drugs are still available. Which is another thing, we canât speak the scientific truth or we are keeping people from their drugs, we are saying all drugs are bad, we are saying psychiatric drugs donât work. No, we are honoring science. Logic would say there would be less, it also says there would be more recovery if different methods were available, certainly methods that correlate more with recovery in the long term, and then the drugs are still there. But one canât say all of that without it being put forth that then we arenât doing anything. A person is considered non compliant, or just not valued for their input when they havenât gone the drug route. How many people, given how the system works, stopped taking the mediation without their psychiatrist knowing it, and THEN he found them showing signs of recovery? And then they got out of the system. Or they just stopped going to see the psychiatrist. Robert Whitaker just did an interview where Courteny Harding revealed that EXACTLY what I said was going on with many of those who had recovered and gone off of their meds, because they at first didnât want to say they had, then showed them drawers full of medications they had never taken, but had picked up at the pharmacy because the âcommunityâ would otherwise have problems. If she hadnât been able to hire people who knew how to relate to those that had recovered, who made them feel comfortable enough to confide, without such sensitivity this information wouldnât have turned up. How often is that going on where the information remains hidden?
Thatâs one of the first things police ask you, because Iâve had them ask me, whether Iâm taking âmedications.â I lose track of how many times people just say: âheâs crazy.â People I donât even know. Iâm also not ever supposed to have recovered, you know, from things that happened decades ago. I was just riding my bike around, once, someplace I used to go, and I hear: âheâs crazy!â and then âHe saw usâŚâŚ.â as if Iâm some target for the same âentertainmentâ people go to a spook house for. For the most part, they are quite totally out of their minds. I had a bad tooth infection, it actually became abscessed, and had been that way for a couple of years, I was stubborn about it being healed with alternative methods or a miracle. Found that colloidal silver kept it at bay, although it was holding me back. Then I found a healer lady Carol Everett Healing Sanctuary and following her instructions within 3 months it wasnât holding me back anymore, although it showed up in x-rays for a couple of years still, but since is gone, which is supposedly impossible. But in the interim, I was going to a church, and was talking in store with the store keeper about Jesus. And I was of course rather animated about it. Iâm not all that gun ho about Jesus, by the way, because there ARE others, and THEY have helped me more, but Jesus is part of it. But there are others who didnât play media games becoming âthe saviorâ and making alliances with powers in the Universe to resurrect them, as if escaping the situation and sharing miracles someplace else would be a failure, which it wouldnât have been, and would express forgiveness in a higher way, because they heâd still have the body nature gave him, and deal with the challenge of how it responds, and how it heals. Anyhow, I was going on about Jesus. A lady from church says to a child with her: âheâs crazy.â I just ignored it. You hear this so often itâs not worth responding to. Then, during a church service, when I was going through stuff, but just myself an non violent, she gets up before the service is over and says, as if SHE knows and other should heed her: âHEâS CRAZY.â I donât know who this lady is at all, and then looking through the psychology department where my father taught and I got my bachelorâs degree in music, sheâs a psychology teacher there. In the meantime, Iâve found out stuff regarding psychology she wouldnât learn academically, certainly didnât who insight, the tooth has healedâŚâŚ
The wheat from the ChaffâŚâŚâŚ.. And thereâs A LOT of chaff, itâs not really fair to compare that to wheatâŚâŚ. I donât think wheat has such a problem, ButâŚ. Why I would want to be part of such a âsocietyâŚâŚ.â Or think that thereâs nothing beyond it, that Iâve failed otherwiseâŚ..
Birdsong, don’t worry about me getting lost in the fourth dimension, that’s impossible. That doesn’t happen there, no loss, no guilt, no loss in giving etc….. It would be more thinking I can get lost there that causes problems…..
Oh birdsong you didn’t need to be clearer. If I had gone one step further it would have been thinking you meant that the drug companies should stop with their games, how to get things approved: what their intentions are. The point being one gets lost in such a swamp of convoluted….. When the lobbyist becomes the supposed authority, and what’s the difference? Is it ideology or a paycheck? Or is it called for me? And who is pulling the strings? Just like trying to talk with somebody who has been all indoctrinated with a whole repertoire of responses to insist that the planet is flat or that the sun revolves around the Earth. Why? Because then whatever outfit promotes such ideology can sell their stuff. Chemical imbalances that the treatment causes which is said to alleviate what it causes. And then you have more of the problem. And so when there’s statistics that shows that there’s rising problems and it’s become critical there’s an epidemic then we need more of what causes it: not only the chemical imbalance (that the drugs cause: the treatment not the supposed disease) also the paranoia in society. Make the whole populous alarmist about something and there you go: they’re paranoid fixated…. There’s a whole war going on against natural functions of the brain. Intelligence….. This society is so full of believing it needs to control people with fear whether it’s the penal system militaries the school system handing out grades religions talking about how money who knows what else. And it trains people to do such, you end up with a select group of people so sociopath that the only winning they see left is dowsing the population to be controlled by them whether it’s psychiatric drugs or other forms of mind control. Who is the guy that was actually on Charlie Rose going on about how you would stop homelessness if you put that population on psychiatric drugs or other such nonsense? There’s no reason they’re homeless you just dope them up and make them more docile and able to be mind controlled. They’re going to go in the factories feed consumerism and help destroy the rest of the planet with pollution etc. And the people pulling his strings are worse except that he thinks he needs them. That winning is ditching their own humanity by trying to destroy it in others. While this comment has the option to edit it I had to go look and that I guess was E Torrey Fuller promoting this idea that you could drug up all the homeless people and they’d be all functional. You know let’s just ignore the whole history of what such controlled substances have done and make up a new fantasy and people think oh yeah. I guess he wasn’t in Charlie Rose’s brain series but that’s also just a bunch of lobbyists actually. You get that all over the place in corporate media of course not just the mental health system what you hear about any topic regarding any of what people are supposed to be controlled with regarding fear. After a certain point you are just completely lied to basically and all they have to do is find some angle to make a mental construct to mislead you with……. Maybe I should listen to Charlie Rose and his brain series which came out before he was basically fired because of the me too movement but yeah so that’s still out there like it’s something. Maybe I should listen to it but I never watch the news either….so much stuff I just don’t even believe it. I guess if I watched Charlie Rose brain series I’d have to take out a notepad to start writing down all the convolute everything….. Because otherwise I probably would get totally lost trying to remember it all, it’s totally overwhelming. I mean you have to act like you’re taking a college class where you have to keep track of how much they’re lying to you and take the same kind of notes you would take to see what somebody is saying when it’s actually scientific but here you have to keep track of….. And it’s all hidden under we know we’re causing a chemical imbalance but if you don’t say it’s treating one then the people won’t take the medications, which only work in the short term that’s all you have long-term everything gets worse but you’re also ignoring along with every cause of chemical imbalance not treated it, and yeah there’s way more mental illness because we’re causing this chemical imbalance which we can’t tell people but that’s just that it is emerging in society it wasn’t being treated before although there is more disability…. Incredibly incoherent other than how it deceives people while everything is getting worse in the long run for them to believe that what caused the problem is going to fix it….. Then there’s more of the problem so you can cherry pick the minority that it is working for as if that’s going to fix it when it has caused the spike instead. Well people get more fearful and more moralistic…… I have to stop now in a minute I can’t edit anymore
And thank YOU for writing this blog. Don’t stop. It’s good. And I’m sure, or know beyond needing to, that many of us are thankful you gave us a place where we could feel safe, and be safe to know our own stories……
Birdsong, I’m glad you got off Welbutrin. I still am “recovering
from someone making out he’s an authority being a psychiatrist, comes in here, a blog where a lady very honestly details how she wanted to take her own life because of the side effects of Xanax, and got out of it despite a doctor that wouldn’t listen; and this other “authority” says we got it all wrong (SIC added by me):”Your [SIC] making a lot of assumptions. Simply put this lady was given Xanax instead of SSRI trials which was a mistake. Thatâs the only conclusion you can make not what you are going on about”. THAT is a professional? He doesn’t see this is about Xanax toxicity that shouldn’t have happened, and the rest of it I already stated and would have to repeat, such as he doesn’t KNOW why she went to see a psychiatrist to begin with, who he WASN’T; so he determining whether or what type of drug she should have had is impossible. Unprofessional. Not what this blog is about. She has come back and pointed out there’s a whole community dealing with this problem YET, after years of knowing how dangerous this drug is, and it’s STILL handed out like candy: Benzo Buddies and BIC she mentioned as Internet sites. She also said that people go to a psychiatrist for a reason, and that being that she was under considerable stress, the psychiatrist posting here had already decided she was being treated for anxiety (no sir, the Xanax caused the extreme anxiety), doles out âinformationâ regarding what supposedly would have helped for what he doesn’t know was going on and was wrong regarding. The only conclusions we could make (he says) was that she was supposed to be on treatment for something, that since he mentioned the treatment has had several severe warnings itself regarding, people have had to rebute or question data he shares, and why he shared them wasn’t why she [who wrote the blog and wasn’t asking for another diagnosis or prescription] went to a psychiatrist to begin with.
It’s quite predatory when people start talking about severely disturbing things to have someone pop up with answers, in this case inappropriately, have that not phase them, and then start sharing data that’s questionable or inaccurate regarding diagnosis they were never asked to make and even would one believe such doesn’t apply in this case, add catch phrases, deny science, dismiss certain brands of trials if they don’t show the data wanted, display personal attacks in the form of straw man arguments, saying both you and Steve (and probably more, who can keep track of it) said things you never did……..
Some of us are actually trying to keep track of the truth!
Just an example of how OVERLOADING such behavior is, when you wrote: “Stopping the crap was my idea.” in reading that at first, and the second time as well, I thought of course she’s (or heâs) referring to what she thought that the psychiatrist would have EVER prescribed that, “Stopping the crap” having taken on a dual meaning and I went down a layer regarding what it could mean, that such disruptive stuff shouldn’t have been prescribed: that when he said, as you detail here :”But get this: the prescribing psychiatrist, who was very âwell-respectedâ, NEVER MADE THE CONNECTION. He looked at me in amazement while saying, âYou are a different personâ, which I was. He said heâd never seen it happen to anyone before.” I thought, of course, she thought in general stop the crap, stop handing stuff out like that, but you meant it was YOUR idea to stop with the medications, and he had never seen that with anyone else. Added to that you had to take yourself off before telling him, and only then could he see. I mean, it would have been something to FIRST ask him, hear the negative response, then take yourself off, and then what? Which might not even have been safe given the situation, because you can see again how defensive such people can get, From this blog also.
And the poor dog that was put on antidepressants….the one a friend of mine couldn’t handle and brought back to the pound. I think she stated that he tried to bite her, or had (she was giving him a bath, which one can only wonder why she would even try that with a dog), but it was a really nice lady. Always took in underdogs, although this really was a dog, but on antidepressants she couldn’t deal with it. I have to say I felt it around me, from the other dimension, where everything can happen, and so much of it has, I just have to learn one can’t talk about such with too many people. Let alone too many psychiatrists. It’s the science of thought, and I mean science. And so I had a whole so many page of impossible stuff that has happened that I felt was too much (Elsa the lioness that appeared out of the fourth dimension when I was doing the yoga pose the tree at a bus stop, that no longer is there and informing a lady waiting where they moved it that they put up a fence and took the shelter away because maybe homeless people would hang out there and thus they moved the stop I realized later she was an angel among us, and then before they took the bus stop away from that area a whole flock of seagulls murmured perfectly each of them catching a bread pellet the whole flock staying in flight to catch each pellet one by one, whatâs called Indian file, pellets I had made from bread that had been discarded and I kept for no reason until there was a reason or it happened, and where I had picked it up miles across the city ended up being a place I teleported away from having to cross there at a stoplight, when I stepped so carefully to avoid slipping on the ice that there was no fear to do something good or be chastised (I do use yaktrax and such now and did then mostly) ending up with one gentle step on the other side of the building, around the area where every time I needed to escape rationality of limitations Iâd play with a Mozart aria and the singer who had reincarnated and died since again appeared out of nowhere like Elsa, and so many I lose track, the earth does have a history that speaks and the wave patterns shown in the double list experiment to become particles emerge in dreamtime to show life always had meaning, and then most recently along with the lady at the portal area where they moved the bus stop another being regarding what touches in with the fourth dimension when you let go of fear appearedâŚ. And thus were pages I donât know where they went, apparently I didnât even save them, although I could keep adding to that supposed word salad forever⌅) thought the science of thoughtâŚ.. THAT is something different than turning off the physical mechanism of thought called the brain, akin to turning off a warning signal, such as a smoke alarm or when the car says something etc. etc. when the warning is too much for whoever would have to deal with waking up instead, to thought.
(Elsa the lioness that appeared out of the fourth dimension
when I was doing the yoga pose
the tree
at a bus stop, that
no longer is there
and informing
a lady waiting where they moved it
that they put up a fence
and took the shelter away
because maybe homeless people would hang out there
and thus they moved the stop
I realized later she was an angel among us,
and then
before they took the bus stop away from that area
a whole flock of seagulls murmured
perfectly
each of them catching a bread pellet
the whole flock staying in flight
to catch each pellet
one by one,
whatâs called Indian file,
pellets I had made
from bread that had been discarded
and I kept for
no reason
until there was a reason
or it happened, and
where I had picked it up
miles across the city
ended up being a place I teleported away
from having to cross there at a stoplight,
when I stepped
so carefully
to avoid
slipping on the ice
that there was no fear
to do something good
or be chastized
ending up
with one gentle step
on the other side of the building,
around the area where
every time I needed to escape rationality of limitations
I wonder what the conclusion is regarding this statement:
“One hundred thirty-three people met their own needs (79%). They once had regressed to the point where they were unable to brush their teeth, comb their hair, or use a fork. Many even threw off their clothes, smeared feces on walls, and spoke animal gibberish. Now they were able to pay bills, cook, and clean, generally take care of themselves, and often others.”
That letting them out of the asylum, giving them the space to decide THEMSELVES whether the medications work (even though later it’s stated that many of them acted like they were still taking the meds, and only confided the truth later, while showing drawers full of pills they never had taken but picked up so the “community” wouldn’t freak out), not having to deal with sadistic psychiatrists and nurses (I’ve at a drop in center had the same experience, a bit, when you can’t actually state the truth regarding statistics or scientific truth regarding what happens off meds, here the psychiatrists seem to have gotten almost belligerent, if not, saying that instead those people had affective disorders when they recovered)… obviously ALL of that and more, but it’s quite dramatic when it seems that instead of helping them the Thorazine made them incapable of taking care of themselves, etc.
registeredforthissite I really am amazed, in a good sense, that you can read such blogs, as Lieberman and the nurse, I avoid such places as I would avoid paralyses, actually. To read such stuff, and see how completely clueless and brainwashed some people can be….. it makes you [me, one] wonder whether one can do or say anything except pray for a miracle, not that that’s impossible but there I end up feeling helpless reading such…… Lieberman, who can’t even process scientific data, corrupts, true statistics and scientific results, then when what he advocates, enforces and prescribes, often AGAINST the will of the vulnerable people forced to adhere or be arrested and forced “treated,” when this correlates with the lack of recovery, the disability, the spike in the problem, the epidemic the TRUE results are; then he talks about them being infirm. WHO exactly is non reality based? Who is impossibly showing signs of having infirmity? Who is it no one can convince he’s unaware of what’s going on?
WELL! Looking at the twitter site regarding him, it seems, after getting numerous awards, all sorts of highly esteemed academic positions, he was outed as being quite racist, and then colleagues of him reported he had shown such signs the whole time. How much money was poured into this racist man, the whole time? Someone purporting that schizophrenia also is genetic? And then these “trials” showing that the newer drugs are so effective, where they took “schizophrenics” already addicted to antipsychotics, took half of them off, put them in the control group where they of course got withdrawal symptoms listed as showing signs of the disease instead, the non control group then getting another drug close enough to what they were addicted to that they didn’t get withdrawal symptoms listed as more not showing signs of the disease, and THAT was supposed to “prove” the drugs were effective. Beyond this, they didn’t note how many of those who were said to be helped by the newer drugs before the two year or so trial was over had gotten off of them, nor did they look at long term results for those who at first were said to have symptoms of the disease but later recovered without going back on said medications…..
That someone, racist the whole time, can put forth schizophrenia is genetic, get THAT much money with his cohorts to corrupt science, be able to advocate force treating people, have the legal profession and the police back this up…..
Years and years ago, there was an article from Satz in the BMJ saying that a psychiatric patient should be able to get a restraining order against their psychiatrist, given the proven damage such “treatments” cause. I starting responding to that article, and met a really nice person who had been treated such, and she was amazed at me that I could even read and respond to what such people, psychiatrists etc. were saying. She had gone into an asylum, regarding childhood sexual abuse, upon being advised to. The result was that she was so drugged up she became catatonic, and it would take her like a day to be able to decipher what such a statement by a psychiatrist or so was really saying. Then she tried to become a nurse, she AGAIN couldn’t express her experiences regarding antidepressants in class to become a nurse, or she was harassed and suppressed at every turn, she told me one person was so belligerent she was sure she would have physically assaulted her, was she allowed to…. This lady was the friend I made: https://www.amazon.com/Ranting-Out-Devil-Traumatization-Transformation/dp/1904697445 And then all over the place just being alive and relating to human beings rather than being indoctrinated by said media blip, simply talking about reality what I encounter. A lady who was promised a job here in my city from Ukraine, and then had two children, was a very good mother, but the paperwork for her status as well as the job didn’t fall through, she had to deal with that, take care of her children, and some social workers came along and noticed her house keeping didn’t compare with something you see on TV, or who knows what would have found approval, and of course this lady was affected by what happened to her, but still a very good mother, then the social workers proposed antidepressants, and the poor lady, whose mother was a nurse, said what she knew regarding such, given her mother knew the truth….. the social workers made a report exaggerating everything, and one can only question if this poor lady hadn’t said the truth regarding antidepressants whether there would have been a less discriminative response (I’ve encountered the same nonsense in this city from such maniacs, although they couldn’t really get to me, couldn’t have me committed etc. but EVERYTHING can be misinterpreted EVERYTHING, as soon as they think someone isn’t being compliant to their idea of a indoctrinated discriminatory evaluation) and the poor lady’s CHILDREN were taken away, put in foster care. The local media, the local newspaper also had a whole story about her, AGAIN exaggerating EVERYTHING. I never read it, but talked to someone who went on about it as if it was the truth. He also thinks anyone not inducted into his Jesus cult won’t get entrance to “Heaven” and that “God” gave “Israel” to the Jews, as part of “Christianity.” But there you go….. Another girl worker at a coffee house could tell me how she had to get out of her parent’s house because antidepressants they wouldn’t allow her to stop taking were making her violent, and they wouldn’t listen. And a guy, who I overheard making a sarcastic remark on the bus regarding his doctor recommending antidepressants, who knew the two kids in the Columbine shootings, the two boys came to play pool at his foster care facility that he had then in Colorado, shared how they were bullied at school by jocks, the principle said to go the sheriff, the sheriff said to go the principle, nothing was done, the ring leader of the two had had his medications changed to Luvox just before the shootings, had told his doctor that Luvox was making him have angry thoughts at everyone, his friends, parents, girlfriend, teachers, etc. and the doctor told him to just keep taking the drugs. And the drug companies bought out that case, so this was never reported properly. I have to stop now, being already overloaded, just being awake and alive and talking to people with my brain, senses and curiosity open, rather than brainwashed. How many friends I’ve seen totally disabled by these neuroleptic drugs. People whose subconscious, or whose nature, just couldn’t adapt to said programming by “society,” and thus like all of everything nature does, that’s part of evolution rather than conforming to society and not be labeled as disruptive, they had behaviors they didn’t understand and were met with such alarmist, discriminatory, phobic, paranoid responses by authorities, and then having had their natural responses repressed, natural responses they were made to be terrified of consequently, they were broken, lost the ability to challenge, defy or get away from what was imprisoning them. And YET, in ways they remained more functional than the society at large deciding they weren’t, there STILL remained something human that couldn’t be destroyed…..
I’m also terribly sorry for your loss, and it breaks my heart every time I hear about such knowing the real stories are often buried, never make it into mainstream media. And we lose very human, very dear, very vulnerable people whose stories might change society were they listened to rather than suppressed……. Not only, as J Munro so aptly said, are there a whole cocktail of drugs, to such an extent that one doesn’t know what is doing what… then there’s more leading to such confusion: the diagnosis (there isn’t really a consistency regarding diagnosis among psychiatrist to warrant true science of objectivity, see Paula Caplan’s books: They Say You’re Crazy and her other works), change of drugs ( each one disables natural brain functions in a different way), the way they are advertised or promoted, and the kind of sly ways the drug companies make something seem viable using language that sounds scientific while hiding the truths ( for example what “someone” has tried here with the logic that if science or truth actually exposes what might make the drugs unfavorable that is stigma against the drugs, or dangerous that it might make people want to not take their drugs etc. and then long term consequences are ignored) thus truth is suppressed that would give informed consent, information that would give a person the ability to make decisions based on knowledge rather than advise, ideology and propaganda…… After listening to what such “sources” say, a person may not know what to think anymore, having been filled with all sorts of alarmist ideas regarding short term results, short term results that when seen as being advantageous statistically bring on more problems in the long run, or people simply have been spoon fed constructed ideas of cause and effect that aren’t really true but actually designed to get a person to believe they need the drugs, again for short term results while long term statistically things gets worse….(causing chemical imbalance by disabling normal functions in the brain which marginally suppresses symptoms is said to be treating a chemical imbalance.
While in reality this isn’t treating a chemical imbalance its causing one, and the long term problems statistically correlate with the chemical imbalances the drugs cause, not the disease, but that’s again made out to be the disease….) etc. etc. etc…..There’s a whole spike in the problem, that’s why there’s a book called Anatomy of an Epidemic by Whitaker, and his other books “Psychiatry under the Influence,” and “Mad in America.” People actually have been made to believe that what statistically correlates with the epidemic, with the spike, is necessary to stop it. And when there’s more of the problem, they think that what’s correlates with causing it is the solution. Whether that’s over drugging, or the implementation of drugs to begin with rather than other modalities of therapy…….
How are people influenced such?
People in general are so bombarded with sound bytes, with consumer oriented stimuli, with themselves being turned into commodities by others seeing how they can get them to be consumers that……can they really think anything through themselves anymore. Do they even feel safe trying, or will they look towards some fabricated source instead? Just go back a couple of hundred years ago to writing of say Dickens, or Edith Wharton, or before them Shakespeare, or later Emily Dickinson’s poems, and people had an ability to follow their own thoughts, or relate to someone creating a whole world from their experience, their mind, their brain, their memory, to relate to scenarios their own minds were creating at a level that now a days seems to be quite infiltrated with the vulnerabilities instilled in them with these “soundbytes.” Go to a Hollywood blockbuster, Watch the News, Who’s the latest pop star, What’s that new flavor or item at said big food chain… etc!
I don’t know about Frances, there’s a whole expose regarding him here: https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/04/allen-frances-still-spinning-the-story/ Yes he does attend certain issues that should have been brought out before they started, but he does also seem to still be defending his idea of treatment against others, and then buffing up his brand against there’s rather than perspective in general that might have more to say regarding the whole matrix. I would say read Whitaker who blessed us with this site, or Joanna Moncrieff…..
From Corey: “Are you suggesting people go off their antipsychotics? Because thatâs dangerous especially if you donât know them”
Corey, are you suggesting that when, after implimenting antipsychotics for schizophrenia, or for bipolar (when such medications didn’t exist beforehand), that even though since the advent of such medications, there are at least 10 times (I think maybe 20 times or more, but I’d have to look) more occurrences of such diseases, that anyone questioning whether they are effective is promoting something dangerous? That’s simple statistics. And then there’s the science of how such medications work in that they cause a chemical imbalance in order to disable normal brain functions, and thus the short term reductions of symptoms. But they cause chemical imbalance, which first the drug companies tried to make out came from the disease, but then had to retract. THAT, I find I have to add is simple science, so people KNOW, and can make their own decisions. When someone can’t supply scientific or statistical facts without being accused of saying something is bad, when they haven’t, this regarding how objective science points out something that should be known given informed consent, what is that?
Then you make a statement about whether someone knows another, regarding telling them to get off of their meds. Which also wasn’t suggested, only by you that that’s what was said. Steve simply supplied statistical truths. But yeah, someone presents scientific evidence which would give people perspective regarding whether antipsychotics are the right choice, if that evidence isn’t favorable, then that’s dangerous, regardless of what the evidence says? Added to this. This whole blog is regarding a lady who did better getting off of Xanax. You don’t know her. She hasn’t been to you for treatment. You don’t even know what she initially went to the psychiatrist for, and yet, devoid of all of that knowing, you have made numerous attempts acting as if you have objective knowledge how she should have been treated.
Also, what Steve pointed out regarding the Harrow study. It’s the most severe cases of “schizophrenia” that did the best when going off of the antipsychotics given long term results. And so that’s the OPPOSITE or selection bias. Which then are WHAT they are, long term results. It also happens that people live more than say two years, regarding whether long term, or rather longitudinal studies are useful studies to look at.
You disparage cohort studies, longitudinal studies, although this isn’t really founded. You mention whether there are long term studies that say taking no antipsychotics hasn’t been shown to help hearing voices. When there’s lack of ANY kind of long term study regarding ANYTHING determining that it isn’t effective, this DOES NOT MEAN it’s effective. EXCUSE ME, but that way you could implement anything regarding whether it’s effective or not, as long as one lacks a long term study that says it’s not effective….
You also went on regarding forums and details. When Harrow’s study showed how “schizophrenics” with the most severe ” cases,” and that wasn’t him making those diagnosis, when he shows they do better in the long run getting off of antipsychotics, this DOES NOT MEAN that you can determine the opposite, that then they weren’t severe cases, which IS what you are doing, DESPITE what the data shows. THAT regarding details. Or stating there’s no long term study saying to not apply said treatment to said condition, so that excuses the mainstream treatment. NO! It doesn’t. Would anyone actually look at what you stated there, they would see you are promoting the premise that as long as it hasn’t been proven that not applying said directive is better than the directive, then that excuses or condones the directive….. Those are details? We’ve done something, and no one proved whether doing nothing is better, so that’s being helpful. And then regarding statistics that show that “something” isn’t always such a good idea, that’s dangerous. This is OK as long as they haven’t proven that not implementing it is more helpful…..
To begin with, you donât KNOW what she went into treatment for, you donât know this lady, she hasnât been to you asking for ANY treatment or medications, this is HER blog post, not a diagnostic request. References in a blog post regarding suicidal thoughts because of Xanax, and then the mention that Xanax makes anxiety worse does not mean YOU have had ANY conversation with her and know why she was asking for treatment. Neither does her stating that anxiety is worsened with Xanax mean that why she was asking for treatment was because of anxiety. And then the add on, which you have posted numerous times stating âscienceâ or âfacts.â Because something is mainstream does not make it science. When âmedicationsâ cause chemical imbalance in a brain disabling it from normal functions, and in a marginal way short term symptoms are suppressed although in the long term statistically things get worse, this isnât science to say they are treating a chemical imbalance which was there in the first place, and that such medications are needed for life to treat this chemical imbalance. SCIENCE would be stating the medications cause chemical imbalance, NOT the disease, and that long term outcomes become worse. THAT also would be informed consent.
Many of us here are quite familiar with the way psychiatrists will change diagnosis, and then medications, often without even caring to take into consideration withdrawal periods, mostly without informed consent when medications are changed or initiated. YOU demonstrate this dangerous disabling habit by diagnosing multiple times someone you NEVER have even seen in a professional manner. Neither is there any proven consistency with diagnosis among psychiatrists enough that such diagnosis are objective (see They Say Youâre Crazy by Paula Caplan). Weâve seen that you read references to suicidal thoughts or anxiety caused by a drug and when itâs clearly expressed that getting off of the drug healed those problems, you instead act as if she went into treatment because of what the drugs caused. You behave as if this lady has come to you for treatment diagnosis, know how she should be diagnosed or treated differently dismissing that it was the drug that caused the anxiety and the suicidal thoughts, even though when the drug was stopped those symptoms went away. What if your âdiagnosisâ wouldnât have worked, would you have changed the diagnosis and/or drugs again? Instead, this blog shows that getting off of a psychiatric drug, getting off of Xanax, healed her.
Would anyone actually READ the article, rather than with a clearly biased onset extracting a reference to thoughts, or a phrase there, taking it out of context, and making themselves out to be an authority regarding someone they havenât had ANY professional interactions with, they would see that this lady is doing well after getting off of the drug hampering her. You display quite clearly and accurately exactly what Birdsong stated in a post days ago:
The only thing âcomplexed and nuancedâ about psychiatry is the way it fools people into believing its âdiagnosesâ represent discrete biological âdisordersâ that its âmedicationsâ can âtreatâ.
And your reply being:
You are saying no psych meds work? Thatâs laughable
You continue as if you have the ability to make diagnosis of someone you have never seen in a profession setting, who hasnât gone to you for help, who got better getting away from any such intrusion into her life, and then present yet another diagnosis involving âmedicationâ for someone who got better without any such, and again medications that above have been highly contradicted as being effective. You donât know what she was initially being treated for, because sheâs not, isnât, wasnât your patient. Neither can you decide what she should have, should be or would be treated for, as sheâs not, isnât wasnât nor do I think ever will be your patient. She also got better getting away from the fashion of treatment you are promoting.
I can’t start to express how heartbreaking all of this is. The amount of friends, people vulnerably human, that I have watched the psychiatric system and these “medications” turn into beggars terrified of their own humanity. Like the ones you see on the street corners getting a scrap here and there, when there are whole dumpsters and empty houses filled with what they would need, but it’s all locked up. Where does all this money go, for example that the insurance companies pay out, Government sponsored programs, grants, research, academics, donations to help “mental health,” etc. etc.!!!!!?
I think actually the psychiatrist must also have a PHD. That involves a medical degree. How does this excuse him from not heeding the warnings, that I think would go beyond the warning labels on the drugs the patient gets because the patient was supposed to have read certain warning labels? And regarding what information is missing, we don’t know what that warning label was, at that time. Nor given what was shared, and what others that kept their eyes open for what these drugs do to others, does it seem the warnings would be adequate. For whatever reason you would start pondering whether someone had in-patient-treatment, or for what, what does this have to do with her blog post, other than you’re trying to color her as someone into substance abuse, despite all the warning signs the doctor should have seen? You also seem to be insinuating that she’s hiding something, when in reality you don’t know that, nor do we. Why do you introduce this? Many of us are quite aware of this comparison with psychiatry and street drugs, peer pressure, addiction etc. the difference here is that psychiatry legally prescribes these drugs. Regarding whether she, or ANYONE else, would be hiding something. I don’t really see that her having in-patient-treatment would lead towards substance abuse problems, she states clearly why she was on Xanax, and that it helped her, at first for a couple of years. Then the problems started, and thus the in-patient-treatment. But I don’t know, and I hadn’t tacked on: “she had in-patient-treatment” so was she into substance abuse? And is she or anyone else was, this doesn’t further point to unprofessional behavior from the psychiatrist? It’s also characteristic that psychiatry can hide how they made someone addicted using patient confidentiality as an excuse, and then hide side effects, and then you say information is missing, would someone not have shared they had substance abuse problems. I don’t see that such a suspicion would apply or is insightful given what the blogger has shared. Are there any other suspicions she had about her personal life, and why she would have asked or been advised to take Xanax? Should she not have allowed her boss to overwork her, or was she letting her children (which we don’t know whether she had, but yeah, information could be missing) stress her out too much, or is it the neighbor, or the neighbor’s children? Do you also think she’s getting money from some hidden outside source for simply sharing what this psychiatrist and the drug companies did to her? Again, that’s more the case with the drug companies where when the APA has a meeting normal rules of conflicts of interest have to be suspended. The blogger also HERSELF states she should have heeded earlier warnings: “But alongside the relief, I was also overwhelmed with deep sorrow for what I had endured, and profound regret for not heeding the warning signs sooner, particularly those from the staff at the well-respected facility that I went to. They urged me to get off Xanax but I didnât listen. Essentially, the darker things got, the deeper my trust grew, trusting your opinion only.”
To begin with, this blog post, this article, isn’t about antidepressants, it’s about what Xanax did to someone, something that went away after she STOPPED such “treatment.” Seems like someone then decided she was supposed to be on antidepressants instead, because she had suicidal thoughts, although they only emerged after being on Xanax. If someone is in an abusive relationship which depresses them and makes them suicidal, but gets out of it, should they also be told that they should have been in an antidepressant trial!? How is such a correlation made, that by a professional who can prescribe such, when really the statement regarding suicidality was made concerning another psychiatric drug, and went away after treatment with that drugs was stopped?
Those two graphs regarding antidepressant efficacy are only for 84 days. Not only does that not say anything about what happens or happened afterwards, which statistically correlates with more relapsing, but we would have to see more data regarding what actually went on in the trial those 84 days, before just believing these graphs, that in themselves don’t show much efficacy, if those are the true results.
There are quite a few standard methods that the odds have been skewed, or made more favorable to the non control group:
1) Someone in the control group (and I’m sorry, in past posts I got control and non control confused, it was confusing to me because it’s the control group that doesn’t get the treatment, although to me it seems that getting a treatment is being controlled, so I’m sorry for that, in prior posts. REALLY sorry. I had control and non control group mixed up), however with antidepressants trials it was standard that would anyone in the control group get better within the first week or so, they would be taken out of the trial. Not counted. The guise being that then they weren’t really depressed although someone in the non control getting better is left there. In other words, to actually validate that those in the non control were actually being treated in a fashion that helped them, and not having the placebo effect or simply having their depression go away the first week, you’d have to have duplicates of them, exact duplicates, and have the other in the control group. That seems a bit impossible, which to me says you need to leave those in the control group that that got better the first week there. They of course didn’t take those in the non control group that got better the first week out of the trial, let alone see if they had disruptive withdrawal symptoms would they have to or want to get off of the medications. I think this “washout” method rigs the odds in favor of the non control group. Then often enough, many people in the non control group had to leave the trials, because of side effects, that also wasn’t counted as a failure of the antidepressants, this to me AGAIN rigs the odds. Added to this often the non control group was given not just antidepressants, but an antidepressants and a sedative because of restlessness, meaning it wasn’t really a trail for antidepressants, it was for more than one drug. And then they had to start adding people that already were on psychiatric drugs to get the odds they wanted, which means people that already were used to, liked, or in order to get approval from those prescribing already found psychiatric drugs favorable. Psychiatric drugs being then medications that disable natural functions of the brain, which they all do. Regarding people already in such a habit. Then one can add that there were many many trials made, and only the ones that added up to any efficacy were reported, the rest dismissed, this seems a bit dishonest, as well.
And then we have what happened to those in the non control group that had to get off of the antidepressants after the trial was over, and their sometimes severe side effects not being reported, or at first not included in the trial data.
After ALL OF THAT it would indeed be beyond bleak would there not be any efficacy turning up, but what turns up still remains quite marginal.
To determine what those graphs really show, we would have to be given the information regarding what I listed above. All of it. That isn’t given…..
I want to thank again Jackie Munro for her beautiful article. I notice that up above already there’s seems to be a parallel going on, which I’m hesitant to incite to more, Steve did such a good job responding, already.
A psychiatrist comes along, he says that you should have been put on an antidepressant trial, not Xanax, then goes on about it supposedly helping suicidal thoughts, which Steve then articulately supplies contradiction to, also pointed out the sources backing the psychiatrist’s statements don’t add up. Now, am I wrong, but it seems to me that this article is not about going to a psychiatrist regarding suicidal thoughts, it’s about Xanax, and anxiety, and the result of Xanax causing such thoughts, which otherwise weren’t there. That it’s about the sheer hopelessness of the insensitive, irresponsible and unprofessional behavior of a psychiatrist, who didn’t care to see what the result was, or even responsibly take in the warnings or advice regarding treatment warnings. Where does an article about how Xanax causing what it did, turns into what Xanax caused that wasn’t there before should have been what was prescribed. WHAT!? When someone finds a situation or drug causes them to become suicidal, they should have been on antidepressants, this then excuses the antidepressants, the situation and the other drug? Let’s forgo mentioning get out of the situation when another psychiatric drug becomes involved because you know the drugs are necessary. To not prescribe them makes no sense. No, you should have been given a prescription for what the other psychiatric drug caused, even though the symptom wasn’t there without it. If there are any possible side effects with psychiatric drugs, should we first start taking drugs for the side effects, just to make sure!? How would we know? What does this have to do with ADHD medications, and who needs them: the psychiatrist or the patient, or both for proper treatment? Will that help them to follow orders, to avoid non compliance for either patient or psychiatrist, because such well thought out preventative measures are a bit difficult to follow to make sense out of? Is there any other drug that should be involved? Is there anyone who can predetermine yet to emerge side effects that need to be prevented before they emerge, and is there a problem getting funding for research are new medications determined to be necessary, or is that a bit too much regarding preventative or diagnostic measures?
And antidepressants help dogs with depression. That’s stated as fact. Someone with the same name stated, only then just a first one. Is this depression just a problem around humans? Are just the humans seeing this as depression or have the dogs supplied objective evaluations regarding their own depression, and how did they do this themselves? Or are dogs only able to express themselves objectively when humans do it for them? Should the humans also be taking some sort of psychiatric help given a situation which could be quite distressing should side effects show up? Should these side effects be thwarted with another prescription before turning up? What about dogs in the wild? Are they also suffering because of loss of territory and global warming? Currently only 4% of mammals are wild, the rest being domesticated, this might also be quite bleak for the wild ones. Would antidepressants help them as well? The wild ones? Or should this be administered already because the depression might emerge from further loss of territory or global warming, or that there are even less wild dogs compared to domesticated ones (same as with suicidal thoughts emerging with Xanax should have been instead given antidepressants would they emerge although they didn’t without them)?
Jackie, thank you for your articulate, and lively vivacious article. I’m so glad that not only you somehow got out of this insult to a circus pushing you on all sides, stimulating you into what you thought you couldn’t deal with anymore, poking at you, not listening to your own input, response, or experience, then poking you more, then…..
God bless it that you got out of such a dizzy dizzy situation.
I had a psychiatrist, friend of my mother, way back before she diagnosed me, she prescribed pain medications when I had contusions from a car accident on my right side. All that the problem was, was I would have needed to wait for a month or so, and I could then sit again and play the Chopin etudes at the piano. The pain medications taught me to sit wrong, although I could practice a Beethoven concerto, Chopin etudes required more of the body, and years passed, I didn’t know I had learned to do this, all sorts of problems I wasn’t aware of, or didn’t turn up till later. I have to say, maybe you’ve experience that as well, that it is rather interesting to find solutions, which I’ve done on my own, teaching the muscles to go back into alignment, although I would have wanted to avoid all of such, and often wish it just would go away, albeit this being more than half a lifetime later, and Chopin also has been waiting, who I already knew through a medium, and just have to laugh when I had a sitting at a piano with him, and he didn’t even mention I added a few extra spices to what’s called the Winter Wind Etude, or was I just doing that now, without knowing it at first I had wanted to start playing where these spices would end up, when sitting with him at a piano, he coming through a medium, and when I hesitated, only thinking that chord, he asked me why I’d stopped, and the medium’s hand came to the other side of the piano, the eyes closed wouldn’t have seen any of the notes, and played the one correct chord, which he had done earlier regarding another passage, pointing out if I played a supposedly slight variation in a phrase the wrong way, being that I would play it as it is written the other time, I’d hear why it’s that way, rather than this stupid question of mine, whether it was like Polish grammar which is quite complex, has seven cases someone told me. Chopin also did the same regarding part of a Mozart sonata. There supposedly was a compositional error, if you misinterpreted the voicing, since the hands couldn’t play all the notes,what’s called parallel fifths, he again didn’t correct me, but said: “maybe you were thinking this,” and then played how you could fix what wasn’t wrong, only if you misinterpreted it. REALLY COOL GUY!…… But I was diagnosed also, more than half a lifetime ago, shortly within a year or so after that, because stuff was going on that I didn’t have an outlet to talk about, and the balance between the left brain (it was seriously stuff that one can’t talk about, that people find crazy, I knew that so and so would be in my life, although there was no way I could know that rationally, then he showed up, and I couldn’t deal with it, something jarred, whether it was I just needed space for myself or…..)….. the balance between the lobes of the brain regarding stuff that doesn’t come really from physical perception, and the whole ability the brain has for imagination and dreams, and everything transcending such…… while people were making me out to be crazy, and this psychiatrist believed stuff my parents told her, as if something wasn’t going on when all they would have had to do is ask the neighbor lady to find it it was……. and then the world’s way or interpreting stuff that it doesn’t solve, but the spiritual energies can, although that’s ALSO made out to be “crazy.” Even the people saying the represented the spiritual energies, even while AGAIN “professional” got in the way, terribly. I remember having to talk to this psychiatrist, actually a very nice lady and was open to me dealing with the problem without “medications,” even what art might have to do with it, but yet simply thinking she would be someone that would listen, and the anxiety that brought, and then trying even harder to communicate and becoming more and more fragmented disassociating from their inabilities. THEIR disabilities…. I didn’t go for psychiatric drugs, instead coffee and cigarettes, which will put you in quite a state, and I over did it, but it was such a crutch……. although i was free to stop, and no one was prescribing all of that. And then on disability I could allow art, dreams, imagination to be what perhaps they are meant to be, without having to meet deadlines……..
I’m right at the age where I have to rebalance the muscles, to prevent becoming decrepit in my old age. And no, it’s not a good idea to take pain medications while the muscles are still healing, so that you can do things that the pain would tell you not to do. I finally know enough to understand the emotional language, the tendencies or push to escape when I could just practice non attachment or meditate, the whole IMMENSE perspective beyond just being normal, the adventure you incur when you’ve experience so much beyond the norm that……..somehow I can balance that out now…. I have to meditate every day for at least an hour. Something brought up by a healer (Carol Everett Healing Sanctuary), that to get the energy for a healing that also wasn’t supposed to happen given physical limitations, she said to do this, and then also gave me a jump start for such………. But one does learn what’s there……
The brain is an amazing vehicle, so is the body, so is the soul, and so is what transcends that into forever and remains……
Thank you for your effervescent blog, article, story, piece of art you shared here…… I’m glad you made it. Be happy!
Sir, try not to fool people into making out what was said was something else. What was said was “it fools people into believing its âdiagnosesâ represent discrete biological âdisordersâ that its âmedicationsâ can âtreatâ. There is TO DATE no real proof that ANY psychiatric medications treat a proven chemical imbalance. That would be a biological disorder. Now, I’m sure you can cherry pick this or that article, but in reality even the drug companies quite awhile gave up on coming forth with what for years they said was “making headway” in regards that their was “compelling evidence,” that they would find proof of this chemical imbalance they said they were treating, but in reality haven’t substantiated what they said they would find. Yes, psychiatric drugs work by disabling natural functions of the brain, and one can scientifically detail how this works, but that does not mean they are treating a verifiable or as was said “discrete” biological disorder.
Mr. Corey Yilmaz, MD. Someone makes a statement backed up by science, regarding psychiatric drugs. Uses accurate terminology. Refers to what would be a biological disorder. You make out she said something she didn’t and then say it’s “laughable.” Is such how you treat your patients who make statement that science can back up, but contradict what you would promote?
I would suggest you try not to insult people who challenge you to respond in a professional way, which so far you haven’t.
And then there’s informed consent.
If then psychiatric drugs statistically, while causing chemical imbalance (let’s just skip informed consent for this argument, not that it should be skipped, but let’s just skip it to make a point), that by disabling natural function of the brain statistically correlate with a lessening of mental illnesses, that would be something, but in reality there’s a spike not only in mental illnesses but in disability. Any reasonable person, with perspective, when ANYONE asks for such a drug, or before recommending such, would explain that it doesn’t treat a known chemical imbalance, that it doesn’t treat a known biological disease, that it causes a chemical imbalance, but disabling natural functions of the brain seems to help for some people. THAT at least should be said. That would be professional and involve informed consent. Anyone who would care to look at science and statistics further, and be responsible might add that since the advent of these medications there’s a spike in mental illness and disability. That also is long term and in general, NOT cherry picking short term results, and a certain populace for whom these drugs seems to work, while the rest no longer take part in such “treatment.” And that it might be better to try first alternative methods, or therapy, or exercise, or meditation, or walks in nature, or art or taking a look at one’s life to see what might be causing the emotion or responses one is trying to get rid of. Or simply waiting and not fighting with the emotion, not trying to push it away, but finding what helps it to go away. All of that has better long term results.
That you are so sure that what statistics show is in correlation with a spike, is treating an actual biological disease, that when someone simply states one can’t really back this up, there isn’t real grounded science to support this, and so states: “it fools people into believing its âdiagnosesâ represent discrete biological âdisordersâ that its âmedicationsâ can âtreatâ. You call this laughable, what does this say about your willingness to look at science and statistics?
That’s in general how people behave when someone dares to say something against the programming of what’s made out to be an authority. That’s also what often is most hurtful to people struggling with a mental illness, that they haven’t been able to, or allowed to, or even get in touch with what they really feel, think, or have experienced. And then they hear such responses, as their behavior is “laughable” or they are just “wrong” or “sick.”
Please try to be professional as in: “first, do no harm…..”
Well, I had a neighbor, across the hall, and he had rescued a puppy from, what he told me, having all of his siblings murdered, drowned. He told me that those people had been arrested, and the one puppy, that I knew of, had been rescued. He then told me that the dog was put on antidepressants. What we, and who was left in the apartment building experienced, was that as soon as this man left each day, or each morning, the puppy would howl so loud the whole block would hear it, and it scratched so much at the door that it scratched part of the wood, and the carpet loose. Another friend of mine had rescued a dog from the shelter that was already on antidepressants, and couldn’t handle the dog at all, and had to return it. She was so loving of animals, a cat she had adopted she put an extra door for it in her door, would build special housing etc. This lady was loving to any stray, but that one dog…… I did a google search for: “My dog on antidepressants was a nightmare” and you get hits like “antidepressant poisoning in dogs” or “antidepressant toxicity in dogs” or another hit explaining it should only be for short term.
I’ve read the whole article linked, and then went to a link from the article, regarding that Kennedy wants to send people to farms to work against their will, when on antidepressants, yet one only has to read the link and it says the opposite:
“Iâm going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they needâthree or four years if they need itâto learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities.”
Making it available for people, who want to get off of antidepressants or other drugs, that such a resource exists, when they want to, this is not at all sending people to force work on farms. It’s more partisan mud slinging to not see that. And no, me saying that doesn’t mean I’m on whatever side, either.
It says “if they want to” which anyone can read. When someone proposes programs for people, if they want to, to get off of antidepressants, this is giving people free choice. In fact the whole article linked https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/07/rfk-jr-wants-to-send-people-on-antidepressants-to-government-wellness-farms/ runs about as rampant as saying that any sort of recovery program, would someone want to get off of a medication, that that is something else than it is. The Quakers had such programs and they worked in a way that there was way more recovery than exists now. PERIOD. FULL. STOP. Would anyone read what the articles say, Kennedy is only making such a program available for those who want to get off of antidepressants.
It’s also completely not true that people on this site who have written articles haven’t themselves experienced mental illness, which “Claire” describes as “neurodiverse.” Neither is it true that they haven’t had the more “severe” conditions. Again, one only has to actually read the many articles on this site. In fact, what’s descriptive regarding this site is that it allows people to say things they couldn’t say, so often, to their psychiatrist or even their MD, without being labeled as non compliant, and then forced on treatment. This site also allows people to actually share what was healing for them, even after it wasn’t allowed as a potential. Just read the comments and the articles on this site. It’s also quite descriptive that Claire fails to mention that the majority of what one reads regarding mental illness, from those promoting mainstream drugging: not only is the great majority of it from people who don’t have a psychiatric label, haven’t been through treatment themselves, but it’s mostly those same people (psychiatrists, psychiatric nurses, the drug companies, social workers, academicians, media outlets) that wouldn’t allow a patient to even state the truth regarding whether the treatment is working for them and back it up with scientific and statistical data; that would force, or promote forcing someone who simply states scientific or statistical facts against a treatment on that treatment. That would force a person on treatments that scientifically correlate with causing a chemical imbalance, treatments are said to be treating one when in reality causing one. Nor acknowledge the scientific and statistical data, as well as suppress the stories of those who have found a different modality of healing. Now whose voice isn’t being heard? And you only have to read the articles here, or the comments, and see that there indeed are a whole collection of people who have had serious mental illness diagnosis and symptoms that found healing their own way. Of course there are researchers and others. Of course, and then the whole community of people who have found help in such a fashion, the people that mainstream psychiatry not only refused to listen to, said were non compliant and then forced on treatments that didn’t work for them, and then recovered on their own, these people supposedly don’t exist on this site. People with every bit as severe symptoms, that go for, in whatever way they could find, a treatment that’s not via psychiatric drugs, it is not true that they don’t exist. It’s not true that they â people who have had as serious symptoms as anyone else regarding whatâs called mental illness â don’t have their voice on this site. Nor is it true that because they healed without or by getting off of psychiatric drugs, that their symptoms weren’t as bad. Neither is it true that Robert Whitaker says that people’s conditions come from their drugs, he simply states evidence that the drugs, when looked at statistically given long term effects, correlate with less recovery. He and many other people also do enough research and have enough perspective to be able to point out when whatâs called a psychiatric symptom may be coming from side effects or withdrawal symptoms or from the initial starting period of psychiatric drugs. And no, to label all of that as stating that what was there in the first place, and that people on this site who have found alternative methods that healed them share, that he is saying what they healed when the drugs didnât help them, that it comes from the drugs, thatâs so out of place, despite it dismissing other peopleâs experiences (they supposedly had nothing going on with them then, you can just dismiss their story), one can only wonder what is being disabled that the scientific data consistently proves is being disabled regarding natural brain functions, despite itâs supposed to be treating a chemical imbalance rather than causing one, when it is causing one. That’s also why a program, for people that want to get off of their antidepressants, would be helpful. To turn that into hysterics, that once again Kennedy said something he didn’t, propped up by partisan politics, well, there you go again. NOTHING is that one sided.
I’ve heard or rather read, that RFK supposedly said people would be forced into farms rather than get antidepressants!? I really wonder what that’s about. What I think is that he simply repeated what history has shown, and also healing homes of Finland, and that, people that would be committed to an asylum, when they are simply surrounded by a healthy life, an asylum, as the Quakers did, where the idea of asylums come from, and that there was recovery. That’s recovery, which then is lacking in present treatment. I think he simply stated THAT, regarding people that would be committed to an asylum. He stated what correlates with recovery for those that would be committed. I don’t think he anywhere said anyone wanting antidepressants should be locked up in a farm. But oh, someone says where recovery happens despite the biochemical model of mental illness that correlates with less recovery, even less recovery than no treatment, then suddenly he’s saying anyone that wants antidepressants would be locked up in a farm. No, he was stating something regarding recovery that’s proven science and history, regarding those that are committed to an asylum, nothing regarding someone wanting antidepressants or not. And I think he also was simply talking about informed consent. And no, wanting informed consent, when people can then still make their own choice regarding whether they go on antidepressants, this in now way turns into him saying anyone that wants antidepressants is forced to work on a farm. I think he stated how the older Quaker method worked, and homes of Finland worked for those that are committed, and there’s more recovery.
Then, supposedly he said false things regarding proof of correlation with school shootings and antidepressants. And he only said regarding the tests that aren’t happening because of information withheld through medical confidentiality regarding mass shooters, that if that information was there, you might be able to further state correlation with the two. And when he says this, pointing out what would have to happen to determine correlation, he’s either supposedly saying there is correlation, which he didn’t, while in reality he’s only stating there’s enough to warrant looking whether there is correlation but information withheld because of confidentiality would have to be looked at, which isn’t done but he and MANY people feel should be. And then it’s constantly said that there’s no proven correlation, but it’s not acknowledged that to prove there ISN’T correlation you’d have to have the information that’s withheld. “We can’t tell you whether school shooters were on antidepressants because that information is withheld because of patient confidentiality,” does not prove there’s no correlation.
Then it’s stated how many people are on whatever, as if this proves whatever works. Then sugar would be a miracle drug in the US given the amount of people saying they need it, or keeping up the habit, along with a whole list of other stuff, like artificial coloring, MSG, preservatives, what have you……anything addictive or mainstream with enough consumer consumption suddenly enhances their life and works. The statistics however show otherwise, and that’s also the case with psychiatric drugs.
No, suppressing symptoms with medications that cause chemical imbalance, while mostly not even giving informed consent, and saying that a brain chemically imbalanced by drugs interfering with natural functions of the brain this treats what it causes, that isn’t treating a chemical imbalance, it’s causing one. THAT is science. To say so many people are on such, does NOT make it science. Added that there’s more disability and mental illness ADDS to the fact that this doesn’t prove it’s science at work healing, it rather proves the opposite is going on. And then there’s the history of making out the disease causes what in reality the drugs do. That the disease causes a chemical imbalance, rather than the drugs scientifically have been proven to, but the disease hasn’t. First the drug companies stating this, AFTER people have been “medicated” and the drugs clearly correlate with the chemical imbalance. Then it has to be proven false, then they have to retract that. Happened with schizophrenia, that supposedly it’s too much dopamine, but then this turned up because of the medications, clearly, after this was really looked at scientifically. Or antidepressants are because of serotonin deficiency, when AGAIN, in reality, that shows up after someone is on antidepressants long enough that the brain starts making less of it. Simple TRUE science. You inhibit serotonin re-uptake and there’s more of it lounging around, and the brain after awhile starts making less. You put another something in the receptors for dopamine and the dopamine doesn’t attach, so the brain starts making more BECAUSE the dopamine isn’t doing what it’s there for, because of the medications, but this is said to be what the disease does. NO! In BOTH cases it’s the drugs. They still haven’t proven any chemical imbalance they say they are treating, although all their medications scientifically cause chemical imbalance. But again, when anyone states these truths, this is “unscientific.” Why is that? Because now 10 percent of people, actually more, in the US are on such drugs. This supposedly proves they need it, and it works. Then AGAIN one is supposed to dismiss science, this time statistics. There isn’t less mental illness or disability, there’s MORE of it, WHEN there’s that many people in such “treatments.”
And then we hear once again that in other countries there aren’t that many mass shootings. It’s not mentioned that probably at least the antidepressant use is 1/3rd of what it is in the US. It’s not mentioned that in those countries the media isn’t bombarded or bombarding people regularly with stories regarding mass shootings. It’s not mentioned that those countries probably aren’t like the US, having a military budget that is more than how many other countries or what sort of population on the planet together and the population might be a bit less inundated with excuses for why weapons are salvation. Someplace RFK might start with, rather than going straight to antidepressants, but that doesn’t mean antidepressants don’t leave a person more programmable to such influences, and there’s enough hinting that there might be such a correlation, but again information is withheld because of medical confidentiality. But he can’t even say that it would be prudent to allow that information to be opened up, to see if there’s correlation. He can’t say that without people saying he says there’s correlation when he hasn’t said so, only that you can’t say that BECAUSE of the data that’s kept hidden. It’s not possible to see whether there’s correlation when what would need to be allowed as data to determine such isn’t allowed.
And then there’s correlation that’s there but is simply dismissed.
In “developing” countries where they don’t have money for all of these psychiatric “medications” and recovery is much greater, then when there is correlation this is dismissed why? Is that AGAIN because it’s another country? Still it remains in THIS country that there is, in the long run, more recovery without such drugs, or when a person gets off of them. Again science is denied…….
I DO think RFK might help himself and the country, that if it’s proven there’s a link between antidepressants and school shootings, or other forms of violence beyond what’s already in the black box warning label, despite the drug companies trying to prevent that, he might look at why people in this country are vulnerable to thinking such is a solution; that even if there does show to be a correlation, it might point out to something else needs to be attended to. Or he might just start there, and start seeing the many ways violence is excused as just or necessary, or defense, when it never really ends up being such in the long run………
This isnât for everyone to read. I know there are those on this site who have had RSA abuse, and are still healing from it. I had it in a past incarnation, so Iâm just sharing what hope is for othersâŚ..
I have to add another post, Barbara Rogers mentioned how there were hundreds of cases, and the same thing happened with the therapist that helped Brice Taylor, mentioned in Brice Taylorâs book, that she wouldnât believe at first such was going on that the satanic scare said wasnât for real, but there were AGAIN what she says 60 other such cases: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu-SZY5bVr8&t=143s
Itâs not like this isnât part of history, as well. I wonât go into not being able to read Virginia Woolfâs the waves, because, well I used to konk out before the end, like my record player before it resonated with, up above is mentionedâŚâŚ I saw her there in a crowd having to watch something awful, like they had back then. Then I put the book down, although I since have finished the wonderful novel, the rhythm of lifeâŚ.. A whole âfestivalâ with food celebration ,dancing, all sorts of colors, decorations, and there I, an autistic boy, not knowing how to respond to life, was put to death. Someone I know now, but got away from for now, first ties me up, stakes me to the ground, and these maniac people acting like warriors start using knives to pull apart, rip off my flesh like birds of prey. And I had already bowed down from making ANY sense out of it, so I didnât really feel a thing, much, other than feeling sorry for such sad behavior, actually. How could I have âmemoriesâ of this âfestivalâ like coming from on high, like I was flying in? So maybe we can both survive THAT now. Or another incarnations I shy from going on about itâs so ridiculous. Itâs like if you have any natural talent in certain areas that happen by themselves, beyond social whateversâŚâŚ And then returning in another incarnation with the same guy that I was put to death for, that we both were talented what we could do with our bodies, naturally, and having his child (although I was a woman then, we had both been boys or young men before), I remember something ELSE in that incarnation from some Hollywood star now I donât want to mentionâŚ..
Anyhow, regarding the satanic scare, this was going on in the dark ages, in Europe. I was a gypsy boy, a roma gypsy, people who are STILL horribly persecuted, like the natives from the US, and who police kill more than the Black victims, often during âwellnessâ checks. I wouldnât have remembered this but for AGAIN paranoid people, when I was trying to take a yoga class, which I mentioned in another post, years ago, ALSO involving âHollywoodâ but thatâs not in my post listings, because of hacking attempts on this site, and all such was lost. Just simply trying to share something regarding my love for yoga, to someone who was a teacher, turns out was a social worker, so brainwashed, that there seemed to be no end to what sheâd make up regarding irrational paranoia towards me, what MANY people have encountered and not survived thanks to the mental health system. VERY akin to what went on with colonialism. THOSE people are uncivilizedâŚ.. She had a friend, that when I simply was myself, sharing what truly was a love for yoga, which I STILL retain regarding any such teachings (feldenkrais, meditation, tai chi which I havenât gotten into enough yet, etc.) but then I supposedly according to the friend was in the teacherâs personal space (turns out SHE was in mine, making sometimes quite illegal presumptions, as if she could read my thoughts, as when I didnât go to class because I couldnât get there, instead of that I couldnât get there, she supposedly knew I was resentful of a supposed disagreement we had (and no one sees what kind of nonsense such is, as if she knew why I didnât show up, and when I WAS there then again she felt free to misinterpret EVERYTHING, Iâm supposedly dangerously in love with her which I wasnât, itâs quite insulting that I would be in love with such a warped barby doll figure, plus Iâm gay; or that Iâm a dangerous psychotic, when in reality SHE is the one with hostile non-reality-based paranoia) You can look her up Kimberly Slendak-Baker, in Pawpaw Michigan she had an office as a social worker I donât know her friendâs name. That social worker, there also was past lifetime abuse, I found out, I was again an orphan by the mediteranean, first I saw myself knocked out by her, physically assaulted, then I was being sexually abused by her, who was then âhim,â which was so bizarre, as if that was some âkindnessâ of how one treats an orphan, or exploits them, that you only wonder where the flip such ideas came from. So when their paranoia (both of them) as the other remains is said to hit the proverbial fan, I had to start wondering what the FLIP that was all about. What does this have to do with past incarnations? So I saw myself as this young orphan, this Roma Gypsy, and my mother had been murdered. I didnât know even what the congealed blood was on her body, which must have become cold. Somehow, that night a spirit could wrap me up in a bear skin coat, and I slept, or was it a human? My mother was just gone, although I know who that is now, and also was Giorgione the painter, the father already murdered also has true spiritual connection in the arts, since. It seems. For awhile, a cook in the castle liked to have me around. I havenât seen him for awhile, actually. A bus driver now. But then this âfriendâ of the social worker came along, some violent âsoldierâ like person and shoed me out of the castle. This one https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1156166-d3172515-Reviews-Baba_Vida_Fortress-Vidin_Vidin_Province.html I as a gypsy was of course âevilâ vermin, and unwanted. According to him, this time around her, as this person was female, now, when I actually expressed my love for yoga to a yoga teacher I was in her personal space? Iâm shoed out of the castle. It was cold in the forest, and then I found my way to another city, but there I got picked up by someone who was want to pick up such orphans, then handing the over to what he didnât know was a cult. I remember ending up in a carriage with someone who was supposed to help me, but something was terribly wrong. Like when you gasp quietly inside yourself, feeling something thatâs simply shockingâŚ.. And my memory went from being in that carriage to being in a closet of a room with a priest who I was meant to give fellatio to. I was a boy of say 6 or 7? 8? I donât know exactly how they âtrainedâ me, whow ould want to know? But this still goes on in the mind control cults the satanic scare says doesnât exist. Of all places, I ran into this âpriestâ again at a party of some politician who now is mayor. The âpriestâ from back then was sitting like he was hiding on a bench of an alcove down steps leading to Lake Michigan. Then ended up being still such an âauthorityâ being the pastor of a church I had a good friend going to. Of all things he mentioned something that he thought might be politically incorrect with the situation there, given the other people at the party. Then went on about going to give a sermon someplace else, as if it was who knows what glory he was nervous about. When my friend who went to his church died, he caused trouble, I heard, that he was so controlling over what would happen at her funeral, as if he knew what should be said, or represented, saying this to a family member of hers, which I donât know why I remark about THAT, because that family member had my friend who passed away commited, AGAIN being a social worker with such knee jerk responses. The father of both of them, also member of the church died, and the minister gave a sermon regarding of all things I think tornado storms, likening that this deceased man was a member of his church, that he would know what to turn to when there was warning, the whole glory of what the church was made out to beakin to knowing what to do when thereâs a tornado warning, where to turn. I have to add that this poor man who passed away, when I shared people that actually had the same stuff going on that Jesus had, miracles that were made out to be against who knows what (reality, a gift from the devil, who knows whatâŚ. Against the FDA!?), then this man who was said to know, posthumously, what to do when there were tornado warnings, told me: âI guess Iâm just not interested in thatâŚ.â WHAT is the church supposed to be about? The minister definitely wasnât a child molester anymore, nor was the politician who had a party at his nice cottage at the lake, but the minister was still quite impressionable, and of course at such a party, I would hear: âthatâs the guy thatâs crazy.â I donât know how the cult, back then, got someone to think being given oral stimulant by a child was akin to wearing after shave, which is how I associated such, that the man then thought he was given some special privileges or cosmetic enhancement. You can only imagine what kind of weird ideas were going on at all levels, what children were supposed to be, what being tended to is, what special treatment or privileges areâŚ. How does someone get that messed up? Is it the penal system that glorifies trauma as a means of mind control, and having traumatized a child through mind control to be used such is some wonder!? Like a trained animal that does tricks for special people? I remember some stuff still going on in such cults reported widely among survivors. They would bury me alive, but being just a boy, I could transport my spirit out of there, walk in the essence air or wind has upon the grasses outside, more real than this âbodyâ with its limitations. Or they would threaten to throw me out a window, forcefully sticking my head out of it, while holding it would I not be controlled by who knows what, or force me to eat mice droppings. They did have ways of putting you in restraints so you couldnât move, for VERY long times, I think, I find myself just now remembering, because I still find myself letting go of even THAT feeling when Iâm free like I was to walk upon the air that blesses the grasses on top of where I was âburied alive.â Just stuff Iâm forgiving. And then there was a woman I somehow charmed in that city. She liked me, and they got concerned, so they had me murdered in a inquisition like setting. They SURE had ways or torturing people. I still have to laugh a bit being in some device where spring sent prods flying at your face. I seriously had to laugh that people would waste their time thinking this did who knows what. I supposed I ended up dead, and my body end up who knows where, but I donât know⌅I donât think I was gone, I might have returned just like Tina Turner and quite another fewâŚâŚ
How did I run into this lady that I had charmed, and who was quite a few times very kind to me. Again there was a bit of memory that hadnât hooked up yet. Years ago, when a group of Russian people came to theCollege I was studying Russian at as a minor, the morning before, not having slept at all, I think, maybe talking to my friend all night, a good friend, she asked me to bring something to an office at the school, and I ran into a precognitive dream. I had had a dream where Mikhail Barishnikov was playing walking up some stairs, tired with a line of tension in the back of his neck, a red line, perhaps what Iâm still letting go of myself, he was going upstairs, where one would assumingly sleep, then he had turned into a woman, and was playing the guitar. A secretary at the college office had EXACTLY the same shirt on as in the dream. I actually asked her: âare you Misha?â and then shared the dream. Of ALL things I later did run into Barishnikov himself. I had gone to A Course in Miracles group where we are supposed to read from this book all the time, in such a situation (something Iâve shared with Jesus himself to give him an escape, sorryâŚâŚ time changes) I started perverting a sentence beyond what it was meant to mean. And then mentioned to another guy that the next miracle would be that the book sprouts arms and legs and comes to life. If thatâs what I said. Anyhow I said it would come to life. During my youth, we often saw Barishnikov play the nutcracker in Tchaikovskyâs ballet on television. Which is akin to something coming to life, which the nutcracker does in Claraâs dream. I actually then, ran into this woman, who had become âBarishnikovâ in the dream. The one with the colored blouse Barishnikov was a bit annoying, he right away propositioned me, actually, and I didnât respond. But I had run into this woman a few times, even when I was quite disturbed she still was very empathic. She volunteered at a soup kitchen, and once noticed I just missed a bus, and told me how she felt bad for me, but I had caught a bus right after that. We did have a conversation regarding that soup kitchen, how she had to work the whole day. I STILL actually wasnât recognizing the woman from a dream, actually. Then, still not knowing itâs the same woman, I recognized her as the woman I had charmed, back there in Bulgaria, and walked up to her, in the store Iâve mentioned in the other post. I mentioned the history, of how I had charmed her, and then wasâŚ.you-know-what, but ofcourse Iâm still alive, and its OK, and she smiled quite unrestrainedly, what others might not like it not being restrained in any way, and said: âI remember you quite wellâŚâŚ.â It doesnât stop there, because talked to Tchaivkosky through a medium, who was in spirit the whole time, about what was reported as his suicide, and he was good about it saying Iâd make it, asking me whether the medium wasnât like everyone else, since I had become too attached to such, and would have to get away from it, then he told me I would make it, and the medium woke up with tears on his face, not knowing why. Turns out shortly thereafter a letter from the Tsar was found saying that if he didnât do himself in, heâd be exposed. Tchaivkosky had told me that the last two years of his life were very difficult, that someone made a sarcastic remarks, and that was the straw that broke the camelâs back. But since, as with Virginia Woolf, I did find heâd returned. I would say reincarnated, but being born into a body seems a bit bleak, as if its not the other way around, we add to Heaven, allowing what remains a home there⌅Heâs an upcoming violinist, also into chemistry, and when I mentioned Monatomic Gold, within a short time Nicolas Flamel became an angela mong us who helped me let go of stuff, even Jesus wasnât able to, to be completely honest. And with Flamel there was no problemâŚâŚ. Monoatomic Gold being the philosopherâs stone.
Did I resurrect as the pied piper of Hamelin, and help a bunch of children out of the same situation I ended up in? I had to look also, that when Mark Twain wrote Huckleberry Finn, whether I was in spirit, Vaslav Nijinsky not having been born yet, because: A man who I identified as an angel among us, because he had that kind of happiness, offered me overalls, stating it was a gift from a friend. Or just they were a gift. I didnât take the overalls, but having noticed his happiness, found he perfectly fits this guy https://marktwainstudies.com/john-t-lewis-mark-twain-a-friendship/ and then ran into him three times (along with Mark Twain on the bus, the same expression he had when he had to describe how Huck had learned the multiplication table up to 6 times 7 is 35), the second time I ran into John actually mentioning I had run into a friend of Mark Twainâs where he had offered me the overalls. The third time there was another âclueâ from Heaven, but involving a book I wrote, a novel, not the only suchâŚâŚ. I only recently noticed I had taken on an accent that would be Huckâs, just after I was offered the overalls. Now I didnât manifest out of the ethers or the wave particle duality to be Huck, in ways, thatâs a gift from Heaven, but I donât know what happened after this incident, this supposed tragedy in BulgariaâŚâŚ I think itâs possible that what remained more real than the physical, that it might have come back, but I donât knowâŚâŚ. It happens⌅Iâm still shaking off the fettersâŚâŚ I simply decided to talk a walk today, a quiet calm gentle one, feel my head resting on my shoulders, as those muscles are healingâŚâŚ But I had to laugh that as I was walking, and there were dogs in a house along the way, dogs that couldnât âseeâ me with their physical eyes, but noticed they were barking exactly to the rhythm of my gaitâŚâŚ. Once while talking to a piano teacher who remained a good friend of mine, a mouse came out and was just staring at me, I mentioned this to the teacher, who replied that she was really scared of mice. Other such with different animalsâŚ.. and children I can relate to at a level where they donât have to forget that Heaven existsâŚâŚ.which is where they come from and pure creativity. And love, to use a severely abused word. In fact EVERYTHING we think otherwiseâŚâŚ.how could that be what gave us a soul?
More what a good therapist might understand is related via empathyâŚ.. rather than looking for victim, perpetrator, but simply empathy, which shows thereâs another way, and also would heal the perpetratorâŚ. And if they werenât SO FIXATED on âknowingâ whatâs real and what isnât, or needing to be an authority regarding who is a victim in order to get points for being anyoneâs savior, than not only would empathy be empathy, and the whole way it manifests find the possibility of being understood, even when itâs going on with someone else, or in general when hidden and it approached the function of fiction where it CAN be exposed, then time might not have to repeat itself in order to do what itâs there for to begin withâŚâŚ.
I havenât even looked at this site since Saturday, or late Sunday when the stars were outâŚ..
Thereâs another thing going on with coffee, because after running into the actress that played Mrs. Dalloway, the character that originally was Septimus Smith and her together, but Virginia Woolf split up, I ran into Virginia Woolf herself, or rather himself.
Bare with me, it does have to do with image games, and what you get for being a victim and the whole incredibly deception and mind game going onâŚ.
I had already written a composition inspired by her, called mediant. And sorry I should record that soon, havenât done it. But in âcomposingâ or in reality stepping into this space inspired by Virginia Woolf, knowing that she had committed suicide by loading the pockets of a coat with stones then stepping into a river, because she had started hearing voices again and DID NOT want to end up being institutionalized again, one can only surmise what kind of torture went on there. There are enough other people, like Josef Hassid, you can deduce what goes on thereâŚâŚ But in writing this composition, and thinking about a coat, I decided I should buy a coat, a suite coat, a nice comfortable one: one for her that she could wear, and find comfort. Like what one wears in an easy chair, so she HAD someplace to go. This I had done, enough years ago that shortly after running into Vanessa, I had already started going regularly to a store where there was a worker who first inspired me by the essence of purity I noticed in him. I have to add, although I first skipped adding this, as if reason had to bend over to appease indoctrination, but between writing the composition and when I ran into Vanessa Redgrave who played Mrs. Dalloway, there was enough time for Virginia to emerge in the form she did at a particular store. I heard him talking once, with others, and the sound of his voice made me smile so well, being that there was a matrix of poetry around it, a labyrinth, what I might call a matrix, although that word seems a bit harsh, itâs more like what vines do, like words climbing up a trellis to have enough color and dance of movement to create wonder and delight, which they did, or butterflies creating the colorâŚ. Seriously, sounds like Iâm a bit exaggerating, but Iâm not. It made me smile to hear it. I did notice that, perhaps for want of such truth finding resonance, he would have been drinking something with red food coloring, and this made him a bit hyper and anxious, maybe not aware that going along with such social de terminates as whatever pop was that red, and apparently readily part of âsocietyâ might be affecting him.. It was funny to see him being one of the greeters who was supposed to check whether someone was shoplifting, but the expression he would pull to show that he was âSUPPOSEDâ to be suspicious was quite an example of actingâŚâŚ I think I had already seen that he was Virginia, and then I ended up at a redbox machine (a company since gone belly up because of streaming services), that had videos you could get for not too much, and he [Virginia] was mopping the floor there. I didnât say anything, but he was sensitive enough to know I was going through something, I think the mental health system AT THAT POINT would have said I was psychotic, but that certainly is a bit more than they know, have bargained for, or even can diagnose when I go further here. He says: âYouâre nasty⌅f@#$(k meâŚ..â You know what the @#$( fill in. Which to see the words there sounds like something completely else given the kindness in his words, and the empathy. I didnât go for that, but said: âI need a cup of coffee,â and went and got one, to find him still there, mopping. And then, having created the scene, I saidâ
âI have your suite, not one that you can [I donât remember whether I said âwouldâ or âfor pilingâ but you get the drift] pile stones in to commit suicide,â follows a pause to come in at a higher phrase note, âbut a comfortable oneâŚ..â I probably took a breath, or soâŚ.âItâs a musical composition ,actuallyâŚ.â and I might have mentioned it was at home in my closetâŚ.
Time passed, I came out of what would be called âpsychoticâ and with the same tone pure as any child that Stradivari once got out of my mouth, when I thought I was being completely incoherent, or part of myself did that since Iâve learned to correct from thinking âthatâs crazyâŚ.â albeit thatâs another story, from a different time, but when he [Virginia] was at the self checkout, taking care if something wasnât working or someone needed help, I said: âI think youâre Virginia Woolf.â In JUST such a tone. And then he said, firmly and decisively, but again much softer than the kind of assault such words make people think is going on: âTHAT WON!â
The kind of nonsense ensued that goes on ANYWHERE where thereâs this indoctrinated idea of someone is crazy or not, even when another greeter said: âVirginia was in loveâŚ.â the same greeter would belt out âGET OUT!â as if who knows what else was going on that never was. Because heâs supposed to think so, and gets points for it. I noticed Virginia at one point had died his hair blond, and was playing with some friends close to I think a bus shelter or terminal, maybe with a car, noticed deers the same, when they were trying to get out of a situation, with fences around, I mentioned to him that I had seen him with blond hair and he looked like the younger Mrs. Dalloway (thatâs another actress in the movie directed by Marleen Gorris the younger of the same character), and he replied: âthat was funâŚ.â Only a few chance encounters since, perfect with timeâs resonance, him looking like a character in a book I wrote, or when he came into a bus I was in I noticed both of us had the same expression of thought that entail the structural (again I donât want to use this word, because itâs not something contrived, itâs what happens more by itself), [structural] change of one character becoming two. And when I ran into the actress that played Mrs. Dalloway the elder, I recognized her from a precognitive dream, where she was a sylph like image, being seemingly see through and up in the air above me as I exited a movie theater, where the exit ramp doubles parallel to itself so the incline this involves doesnât double the length of the ramp. Two parts next to each other, two characters, and I didnât want to use the bathroom and the concert hall that had such a ramp because there were too many people, and then going to the elevator I ran into the other character [Mrs. Dalloway, Vanessa], she asked me whether I was taking the elevator, I replied I wasnât supposed to recognize her in the dream (thatâs part of the plot, Had Septimus known there was such compassion as with Mrs. Dalloway things might have been different for him, but the whole interaction expressesâŚ.. what it expresses). And she told me that she also wished all the people werenât thereâŚâŚ Her sister had just passed awayâŚâŚâŚ.
I wonât even right now go into the extremely abusive stuff going on, as if there was ANYTHING else going on when I frequented this store, or their alarmist nonsense, which ended up being so extreme itâs like the wheat from the chaff in the whole city, would anyone believe such an insult to malarky. Or nonsense, orâŚâŚ..
There was another boy whose soul I touched in with, involving thought, that was Alan TuringâŚ.. at the same store. Regardless, neither are working there anymoreâŚâŚ I think they ended up somewhere where they could breathe a bit betterâŚâŚ.
To make it short, at the self checkout, I had started wondering whether there was monitoring going on, just playing, or whoever I wonât mention because it gets too complicated looking for a playmate for her son who already is put too much into a monarchal role (when he isnât even the crown prince, who is now King had a child before this but is still hidden because of image games look up Simon Charles Dorante Day) that in having to have an image he would have difficulty just being himself or humanâŚâŚ no, there wasnât such going on, although I had included Chekhov to be along with this âcrown princeâ who isnât really (we havenât had such ridiculous royal struggles in history yet, as to who is supposed to get the âthroneâ), and did run into him, I think. But THAT portal was in a different areaâŚ.. his mother came from an East Block country and started a really nice store. I wondered whether there was some basement where this goes on from, had asked and no, thereâs only a tunnel, which I decided might be sort of a bomb shelter, just because thatâs where theyâd be, not some need, really. Just of there was one, it would be there, for whatever reason beyond bombs. But as dadaism goes, I decided to act this out and simply ASK them whether they had a bomb shelter, knowing they didnât, but heh, this takes whatâs otherwise just a non reality based scenario, and might give it further resonance. So, I asked: âDo you have a bomb shelter?â the lady who looked like she SERIOUSLY needed to brush her teeth some more, they seemed rather yellow from the coating, she laughed, and said she didnât know, and then I said: âAnd Prince William and Chekhov arenât down thereâŚ..â then sat down on a bench and carefully gently pried apart layers of the paper knapkins or towels one gets all over the place, which I donât throw away but keep, putting them in my pockets, usually have such is there a spill going on anywhere, and itâs handy; but then I found out there are separate layers to them, a whole motet of layers, and then I liked to draw on them, then dip them in wax, and thought they looked not too much but enough like parchmentâŚ.. These people (one male one female) in uniforms show up, asking me: âDID YOU ASK IF THEY HAD A BOMB SHELTERâŚ.?â and they wanted to know why I had such a question, plus it had been remarked that I had been acting weird (I didnât make any remark about me being weird, or that most people actually probably knew me from having seen me on TV as part of ongoing protests against wars, I only know this because a number of my sisterâs friends said that had seen me on the news often, I otherwise wouldnât have known. I didnât feel like telling them it was a dadaist exercise, and I knew they didnât have a bomb shelter, so I said something about there might be some need (wasnât even at that point using that for any sarcastic insinuations), I just thought they might have thought that was too out there, weird, although I might be wrong one can only hope. Then along with that they said they were concerned about mass shootings, and I AGAIN withheld saying anything, such as: âwell, you MIGHT want to stop escorting people to asylums, where they get doped up with what statistically correlates with such, if you are worried, or rather âconcernedââ which AGAIN I might be wrong about whether I could share it, might still try to bring out such somewhere, but one can so easily be found non-compliant; and I HAVE been asked as soon as someone says they think Iâm whatever, whether Iâm taking âmedications,â and then they ask whether Iâm having âtherapy,â and MIND YOU this was involving someone, MORE THAN ONCE, thinking something was going on that wasnât, and even if itâs clear that THAT person reporting you as such is having non reality based thoughts, Iâm still asked such questions. NUMEROUS TIMES! Along with these sherif people numerous times asking me the same question: âare you leaving now?â or when simply asking for some ID, and I went quite briskly for my satchel [ was a bit toked up on coffee] having made some movement that caused him to say that was for his own protection. AGAIN as if something was going on that wasnâtâŚâŚ Well, after that, itâs all over the city, added other stuff thatâs taken out of context when the other person or people or institution was more inappropriate, or non reality based, all because thereâs this label of âmental illnessâ on my side. The Wheat from the ChaffâŚâŚ.. And whatâs going on where itâs hiddenâŚ..[?] That ALSO was at the same brand of store as the other, but in a different location, sort of the other side of the city.
When I ran into Mrs. Dalloway in a dream Vanessa was playing that part, but I was Vaslav Nijinsky, and now AGAIN would I go into what happens when I as a simple human being going through what Nijinsky was diagnosed with, and bringing it into reality, where life brings times for me to see thereâs such resources as Mrs. Dalloway, as Vanessa Redgrave, who supposedly could have made it âbiggerâ did she not make a few points when she won an oscar she wasnât supposed to, that IâŚâŚ on the âotherâ side I encounter such âbiggerâ winnings from celebrity actors playing image games, after simply talking about the idea I was âNijinsky,â with people while living in an area where thereâs this place called Eastown in Grand Rapids, Grand Rapids having this duality that it might be the biggest small town on the planet, and thus there arenât any paparazzi, thus these commodities for their image can come here and haul out what they wouldnât in other places, or itâs a place where even I can be free of â because of THEIR behavior â ending up turned into something thrown into the media commodities arena, and not have enough life to actually exist to experience what I needed to to heal, would I end up in the tabloids, like any number of people, say Amanda Bynes for example, and then encountering TWO top billed actors, having heard I talked about being Nijinsky, and BOTH of them, who wouldnât really break the mold they allow themselves to be stuffed into as media commodities enough to be free of image and thus might actually THEMSELVES experience what they were acting outâŚâŚ I mean Johnny Depp having been De Marcos, and feeling free too act like Iâm part of all of that, as if one just takes a pill in the asylum, and bingo he remembers who he is, or Benny and Joon as if ANYONE is given a space for themselves like Joon was, or Brad Pitt in 12 monkeys glorifying supposedly rebellious behavior, thinking heâs cute acting out Akithesia or Tardive Dyskinesia, as if itâs cute, and thereâs are MORE of such movies where someone acts out what the drugs do, as if this is âmental illnessâ sat for example Katie Holmes acting out what neuroleptics do to make someone docile, with the voice of a drugged up child in âTouched with Fireâ âJohnny Depp and âBrad Pitt,â BOTH of them making intimate sexual advances towards me, but not actually taking care to reach out to me as a human being, and Johnny Depp acting like some sexual favor is akin to what he gets at his birthday party, because heâs a good boyâŚâŚ.BOTH of them all over the media because of the problems they caused with their x-wives where their x-wives are terribly demonized. In both cases I report here, I have to say itâs my opinion, from what Iâve read regarding such, otherwise you get you know what. Angelina Jolie wanted to get the report that was made after the plane incident, and filed for this using a name that shouldnât have caused it to come out (I think Jane Doe), and then of course it comes out, and sheâs made out to be some home wrecking demon trying to ruin Pittâs life. The children completely free on their own to make choices, and they donât want to have anything or much to do with Pitt, and itâs HER fault AGAIN. She clearly has to say what went on in the plane because the report gets out, which she didnât want to, to begin with, and AGAIN sheâs something evil, because she says how it was perceived by her and the children, although Pitt thought it was just some drunken binge, like when he and George Clooney used to see how mad they could get each other, and Pitt joked that when Clooney had gotten someone who checks luggage at an airport by looking through it in Israel to start taking apart his suite case, and say in an interview there would have been âblowsâ involved, as if this is funny, or âfight clubâ or mentioning that he had a ânormalâ childhood and beat up on his younger brotherâŚâŚâŚ. Angelina DOES NOT want to have to sign a NDA, because she feels what happened shouldnât be suppressed, and even when Pitt could have bought her share of his âambitionsâ from her without such an NDA he wonât and so because it also involves Alcohol again, she has enough of it, and sells it just to not have to deal with all of that. As if sheâs supposed to suppress what the children also clearly remember and made them decide to themselves to detach from Pitt. AGAIN sheâs made out to be something evil. And Amber Heard. One only has to have listened to the trial to see how the multitudes understand NOTHING about real trauma, because the jury [American] JUDGED her on it, as if she wasnât supposed to respond like someone does that really HAS BEEN traumatized. Or how Johnny thought she was having some affair with everyone she worked with, would stalk her at the movie sets, called the studio, went on and on about her having something with Frank so and so, canât remember all of this stuff, WHY should we have to [oh yes, James Frank, had to ask google what went with Amber Heard and âFrankâ]; and none of that was going on at all, in the meantime, as was his habit, now not only with illicit substances (his amazing âcaretakersâ would say that cocaine made him calm, or get him whatever he said he wanted), but with prescribed, over the counter, not over the counter like caffeine and alcohol, who knows what else (probably LOUD JARRING music as if that challenges authority rather than calming down to be yourself), where he even stated he turned into a âmad injun,â (A guy that filmed a movie as Tonto, because Tonto was so bullied, then characterizes Indians as such) not sleeping a whole night or multiple nights. Well, when under such influences, when the short term memory is knocked out with all of that, multiple ways, and there still is the need the brain has for dreams, to work things out such, and the substances knocking out REM dreaming where otherwise you have sleep paralyses and a person can dream without acting such out, Johnny instead acts out his nightmares, or whatever he conjures up as going on to go with the feelings he canât process from his youth, from Hollywood and what heâs supposed to be that can only make someone feel discarded as human. Any unprocessed notion of whatâs going on, the feeling of abandonment from his youth when Amber or anyone else isnât what his desperation thinks it needs to escape from it, he assaults Amber NUMEROUS times, doesnât even remember what he was doing because of the controlled substances knocking out his memory, added to this the image heâs supposed to maintain to be âresponsibleâ jarring against what he did but would have to take some steps OUTSIDE of such image games to remember, or even conceive of (no, I couldnât have done that, Iâm âJohnny Deppâ bullying someoneâŚ.noâ, when poor Amber saw it all and was hiding it from the media because he promised to change: something they both called the monster. He was found to have assaulted her how many times which was decided by a legal system in England from people who KNOW what trauma is (rather than a jury from the one area Johnnyâs lawyers saw would be most favorable, who couldnât have already have had other notions, couldnât have been free of the media circus, and certainly werenât routined in knowing how someone with trauma responds to such retraumatizing, and no magic pill with your âangelâ Marlon Brandon administering it in a movie changes all of that from Johnny Depp in a state he canât even remember without for him too much trouble, while he had been assaulting what he thinks is some evil against him, but only what he projects on poor Amber. In reality what could happen to anyone given perspective on Johnnyâs life, and Amber understood originally, then even in the second trial said she still loved Johnny. So, where is the courage? Is this what Hollywood can do to someone, or being a Disney hype (I donât know AGAIN at this point WHY I am supposed to even know WHO these people are, I had to look up Don Juan De you-know-what to get Brandon to come out of my memory: by the way Amber Heard actually, according to me, as art goes, is Jane Austen, and Angelina Jolie is Emily Dickinsonâs sister, which is stuff I can remember, and want to). No some jury of people wouldnât know how someone who has really been traumatized would respond, the same as any schoolyard, the same probably at how many churches?, at political meetings etc. and how such a person responds (not that the English system is perfect, or any other is), but that was because JOHNNY sued a tabloid, and Amber HAD TO start telling the facts, stuff that before that she had been hiding from the media. Amber is supposedly ruining his life, when without THAT court case he would have retained the Magic Beasts role, his career wouldnât have faltered in other areas, and then he turns it into what he HIMSELF recently called a soap opera, which maybe is an insult to suchâŚâŚ What does this say about media image games? What does this say about Hollywood or Disney when someone ruins their âcareerâ trying to maintain an image they use as a commodity rather than being honest regarding what someone else was forgiving him about, stuff that would happen to ANYONE that had the kind of youth Johnny Depp did, and then looked for escape in such image, or the controlled substances he did, neither of them working other thanâŚâŚ I mean its like he would need a partner that goes along with his âHerculeanâ drug habits and image, then resorts to the same without seeing what it does to either, and would they kill each other or end up like I wouldnât know what to call such âpowersâŚ..â I donât think Bonny and Clyde fit, actuallyâŚ..
And now as false memories go, and Hollywood and the image game, thereâs also the case of Woody Allen that never happened, not even from the legal system is there such a âverdictâ, and what the multitudes believe, same as Johnny Deppâs insult to a circus or a soup opera, or even a sitcomâŚâŚâŚâŚ
Marey OMalleyâŚ. “I think the influence of the legal profession who has no knowledge base at all for understanding human development and psychology has created some harm with all of this as well.”
The legal system does have a slight nuance allowing for understanding, sometimes, regarding….. what I try to explain……
I perhaps should state that I go into the nuance here regarding how whatâs deemed a mental illness, to give some perspective on all sides, and it might seem to others it goes into left field, or off topic, but in reality it doesnât, nor is it off regarding the initial postâs topic, you just have to read to the endâŚâŚ. And I know thereâs stuff difficult to believe, but youâre not going to convince my Iâm crazy in that Iâm non reality based have I actually experienced them, nor am I going to believe such miracles go flying into oblivion when others say or think or try to convince anyone they arenât real. Itâs a good thing they donât, and it doesnât scare me, no matter what others say to the contrary regarding their realityâŚâŚ.
Since the legal profession seems to usually believe that further traumatizing someone (put them in jail, fine them, set up territorial disputes) who is expressing trauma, one could argue, that then further trauma is made out to be the solution to their behavior. But then you do have a little nuance when “mental illness” is involved, which actually is said can be caused by trauma, marginally, or more than that hopefully acknowledged, but then you have the added traumatizing of forcing “treatments” that in reality cause further trauma, again. Every psychiatric drug causes chemical imbalance, causes biological disease. In disabling natural brain functions it disables marginally and temporarily the expression of symptoms (along with a whole lot more, but people are so alarmist about symptoms they see this as being a profit, as do the drug companies)…. and so you have this interim where they say a chemical imbalance is being treated qualifying this because a real chemical imbalance (that usually isn’t really shared with informed consent) has suppressed symptoms, then after that interim everything statistically gets worse, although again you have those in a statistical minority that get points from the mental health system as being “functional” in a society that does all of that.
But yeah, you do have a slight nuance when someone is deemed mentally ill, as if not everyone has experienced trauma, and acknowledging that as an influence isn’t a challenge everyone has in understanding behavior, forgiving people, and moving away from what causes trauma, rather than investing in it more in order for population control.
Now I, after experiencing stuff that I wasn’t supposed to know beforehand, not knowing how to interpret that and needing someone to talk to about that rather than it being dismissed as nonsense, and the whole aftermath (I also had severe trauma from controlling parents, controlling school system, controlling social situations, bullying, ridiculing etc. etc.)…… I ended up being diagnosed as “schizo-effective” after getting slightly paranoid regarding stuff that WAS going on, but I couldn’t talk about, my mother actually having talked to a psychiatrist friend of hers, as if what was going on that I talked about beforehand never had been (all she had to do is talk to the neighbor lady, to find out, EITHER ONE)…. But then comes the nuance, you see. Being trained as a musician, already (not that that’s necessary, it’s innate to the human condition, you can learn all over the place, or simply from being alive), I had that outlet, and instead of it becoming entertainment, I could experience how music is healing, all the arts actually, more than religion, I might say, because you’re born with the response, no one has to tell you what to believe in or what not to believe in, or what “Heaven” is etc. Science, in observing natural harmony, might also be the same, actually. I was put on disability, and so didnât have to deal with deadline, etc. only the drive of wanting to accomplish what I was told I had in me, already. Also by quite a few spirits via a trance medium. Before diagnosis, I then had been with a trance medium, and talked with Mozart’s mother so many times, the last time I talked with her, and she brought up a time in the Renaissance when she was my wife, and after this supposed drill where she as a spirit through a medium is supposed to ask me what questions I have, and I completely couldn’t think of a thing, only shrugging my shoulders at the pretense of the drill (spirits also are just friends, not some resource for special guidance etc.) and when she just started talking about a memory, I actually wondered whether she had flipped her lid, since I had now gone to the at least THIRD medium, or fourth, (fifth sixth!? or more depending on what you call communication through a medium 7th at least, but that includes what any simple child can do given they are fresh from “Heaven”). OK THAT’S enough musical chairs, and the first response of mine was: “What did you say?” as if I couldn’t hear her, which I had no problem with, I just thought it was…….. since THEN, we haven’t gone through another person so much, actually, maybe I hear her better that way, no more static from any else’s “ego” perhaps..⌠That did actually emerge, hearing her better, although again it would be âSchizoâŚ.â
OK! So there is a nuance there allowing me to relate to art at a whole other level, because I couldn’t function with “schizo-effective” to work with this system. And really to say I couldn’t have, isn’t some false interpretation to avoid working, because I worked INCREDIBLY HARD, more than others that were functional actually. AT times, knowing I could lose it or go and “compose” and just let music be there, giving my responses, my brain, my fingers, ears, eyes, everything something to do, rather than feeling I had nothing to do, was just……. dysfunctional, dismissed, marginalized, disenfranchised…… I went to what surrounded me with a white light (I think it’s sometimes called the white light of Christ, but whatever…… it’s light from forever, all the colors come together to make white, all the chakras, all the colors that even science measures with spectroscopy to see light years away what stars and planet and asteroids are made of, what all comes together to make this white light, not something that can be extinguished, only you have to go there, with your mind, you can’t just flip a switch, it’s more the eternal sun reflected in the Universe, in the stars,transcending time and space…… I could be working on a piece of music, then step away from the computer, midikeyboard, synth etc. be making a meal, and then I would hear the same music having taken a new turn, but that would be the same as there’s no difference between inner and outer voices as in “schizophrenia” only the inner voices are more real THERE. I wouldn’t have to “compose” just listen, and not dismiss this, and THERE the “composition” comes from…… YEARS of hard work, having music to share, the best musicians in my area from the local orchestra playing my music, but then I was still……. No, the button to turn me on and be “entertaining” just wasn’t…….. or what they waned to exploit, or turn into their way of how it should be whether my behavior or the musicâŚâŚ…the ego to make certain judgments of how to whatever……
I avoided therapy, my parents were both psychologists, both have passed on beautifully, my mother gave therapy, helped women with sexual abuse extensively…. But so many friends of mine I had seen torn apart by the mental health system and “therapy.” People I could talk to, who had also the same opening, portal, doorway, avenue to something beyond, and could respond without the judgement most of the rest of society had, weren’t even able to NAVIGATE through such to be “functional” at times, or ever……… And then I watched them torn apart by the system, forced on treatments that abused them terribly, and when they couldn’t rebel without the fear of more of it, or knowing that was the result, might switch into compromising themselves. VERY DISTURBING AND TRIGGERING STUFF TO WATCH! Also this friend I shared above in another post……. So I never had therapy, avoided it while on SSI, would go in and out of what might be called psychotic episodes in order to integrate what now has been. Even just coffee drinking, not only does it interfere with Gaba that makes you tired, but increases serotonin and dopamine, and then recently I find out there’s often mold in coffee. Even going off of it, although I only drank decaf, would I be doing this the whole day, even thought like five cups of decaf is about as much as 15% or 25% at most of a normal coffee cup, I think the mold was affecting me. And this was going on for years, probably, plus smoking. The bodyâs respond, when given some freedom, does slow you down, or take you out of the rational thinking winding you up to not allow the immune system to take care of the mold, so after an episode, I would come out of it, I think the mold causes some mild infection in the brain, and we have this stuff all over in our body balancing us out, actually, so Iâve learned to get away from this rational stuff winding me up, to be rational where itâs rational but not indoctrinated or fear based. Irrational to allow for non fear based rationalityâŚ..
I have to add something totally insane here, by the way. Regarding Coffee, I didn’t know that Tina Turner had died, would in these “episodes” play around with a certain Mozart aria, had my turntable record player fixed with a possible device playing around with the wave patterns the electric motor for the turntable that would otherwise konk out after an interim (there’s supposed to be green stuff that prevents it from working butâŚ. Despite that it works every time since I introduced this little device that has aâŚ. um⌅ little mythological implications with its electromagnetism although extremely smallâŚ. something else regarding electromagnetism that has a different relationship with time, like miracles do then collapse a time, as stated in A Course in Miracles, or rather dissolve time that would otherwise be repeating itself when a person has fear thatâs causing them not to see what itâs expressing from here https://acim.org/acim/chapter-1/principles-of-miracles/en/s/53?wid=toc a few of those principlesâŚ. Principle 13. Miracles are both beginnings and endings, and so they alter the temporal order. ²They are always affirmations of rebirth, which seem to go back but really go forward. ÂłThey undo the past in the present, and thus release the future. (ACIM, T-1.I.13:1-3) principle 47. The miracle is a learning device that lessens the need for time. ²It establishes an out-of-pattern time interval not under the usual laws of time. ÂłIn this sense it is timeless. (ACIM, T-1.I.47:1-3) Please understand, that Jesus can be a bit taking on too much having been brainwashed that HE was this prophet that HAD TO BY by his family, and when it says principle â32. I inspire all miracles, which are really intercessions. ²They intercede for your holiness and make your perceptions holy. ÂłBy placing you beyond the physical laws they raise you into the sphere of celestial order. â´In this order you are perfect. (ACIM, T-1.I.32:1-4)â In reality thatâs about everyone is Christ, has a soul from the other dimension where it canât be destroyed, everyone is the resurrection, as well as the second comingâŚâŚ Iâve had to go beyond him to integrate what he was trying to represent, which is OK with him but thenâŚâŚ.. And thusâŚâŚâŚâŚ Regarding Coffee, I was playing around with this one aria, that had been sung in Mozartâs time, would do it improvising on the violin with the record player (I think I canât share it because of copyright stuff), but was fun. Iâd act like the violin squeaking away was the pig replacing the Soprano (funding for Opera is down in the USA), and other stuffâŚâŚ Here unadulterated by my spaceship turntable, which I canât share because of copyright issues from youtube, from where there were people that could afford the soprano https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruM8d4vcGec âŚ.. But then, after doing this for years, different layers added on to thisâŚ.. Iâm at a Goodwill, and thereâs a really nice black lady standing there, talking to a worker. The worker Iâd experienced before moping around the store thinking she was a good girl and a blessing like a tea kettle presuming everyone wants what itâs warming up for, all sorts of these âreligiousâ songs, like some annoying thing the wind has to do creaking around the corner of a house, when the wind would rather be free of itâŚ.. and thereâs an incredible amount of gossip about me, whatever Iâve done, getting radical with people trying to exploit me, with the end result they just werenât up to it, and then Iâm of course called nasty or inappropriate. I donât know this lady, and sheâs moping around thinking sheâs being good sounding like some muzak that an irresponsible person forgot to TURN OFF. Before, she was going on, and then she say, seeing me: âHeâs nastyâŚ..â I had enough of it, and remarked: âWowâŚ.. she howlsâŚ..â Then she says Iâm nasty again. WELL! THAT being beforehand, actually. Time âpassesâ and Iâm there at the store again, turns out there then a nice Black lady talking to her, I could see. I could see the soft energy around this lady, they had an interaction, and as the lady was leaving, the worker says: âShe says sheâll buy me a cup of coffeeâŚ..â out loud so everyone can hear, and then looking at me: âHow do you know I need coffeeâŚâŚâ Either during this, before or after, I motioned to the woman, sort of a wave, when you at least lift your hands but not too much, to not make it look indoctrinated or officiated but simply human, and smile, again not too much. Just friendly, and weâre both dealing with not turning into robotsâŚâŚ What I saw who is listed as the savior do walking into a bus, and then I went and talked to him myself, not knowing no one else could see him. first entering the bus I heard a voice says: ânow heâs really cryingâ because I knew I would fall asleep for a moment, but then woke up after the short spurt and sat next to him to talk, regarding someone I think I knew was his brother back when itâs not overâŚâŚ. I motioned to her the same, likehttps://acim.org/acim/chapter-1/principles-of-miracles/en/s/53 any child would to lighten things up. So the Black lady left, and I remembered it. And then I read that Tina Turner had been listed as dying a week before that. Went and looked, can you imagine you can do this on Wikpedia listing everyone that premiered said Mozart work, and sheâs listed here, which I had already starting thinking was TinaâŚâŚ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterina_Cavalieri
âCoffeeâ
It was TinaâŚâŚ..
Emotions also, especially in art, they transcend the conscious mind, they resonate with forever, they have an intelligence that brings life together beyond the ego, they form whole worlds âUniVerseâ a song that blesses us with the experience of what potential is there to be creativeâŚâŚ. They transcend boundariesâŚâŚ I donât think they are limited to being non reality based the way people cut them off, not even trying to see what the mind makes out of them, even when expressed completely non violently, even when others try to intimidate one to think you canât see any reality there⌠fiction wouldnât exist to have any meaning, neither would imaginationâŚâŚ…art is real⌅
Now, I do have to add that before I went to get ANY therapy, before I found people again I could trust, knowing past lifetime stuff, which isnât then past, itâs just from forever. I did start, on my own WITHOUT therapy, start to have what might be called âfalse memory syndromeâ or âsatanic scareâ stuff going on. But then, not going into past lifetime stuff that then WOULD be gone, a dream you wake up out of, I canât say I didnât encounter ample evidence that such stuff IS going on, whether or not I was or had been going through it, again regardless of pastlifetime stuff, stuff like a dream one wakes up out of to see the human condition the spirit transcends all of itâŚâŚ When simple empathy is made out to be âschizophreniaâ and one canât be picking stuff up that whoever is trying to hide, as if it controls the human condition rather than we all have the ability to transcend and heal it, even in the perpetratorsâŚ.âŚâŚ. WellâŚâŚâŚâŚ
Dear dear Renate, human emotions are amazing vehicles of multidimensionality. The very fact that we can feel, and it determines our responses, or that we can reason and what we think makes a difference, is a veritable gift from where it came from: nature. God, the UniverseâŚâŚ to denigrate that and the condition of being human with the phrase: âjust a â human emotion,â as nothing. What are you missing? Emotions are amazingly wonderfully multidimensional, they effect everything you do, every response that any nerve has, are related to your memory, how you respond, the choices you make, what you take in to your life to have the experiences you have. They have an intelligence that transcends conscious thought. There would be no relationships between people, between them and their environment, between them and time, no music, no art, no poetry, no storiesâŚâŚ..
Dear dear Renata, please feel free to completely tell us how antidepressants helped you, how you came out of a state you felt was keeping you from life. I’m sorry if it feels like you can’t express that, as if we are saying you don’t deserve something that helped you. Or that you are wrong. Please don’t feel anyone here is wanting to take away from you the fact that you deserved something to help you. Please don’t feel violated that we have a different angle on it. When there’s more variations on what helps a person, that only creates more potential, and doesn’t take away from anyone. There’s a lot of stuff we simply can not just ignore, nor would we be responsible would we, the same you would feel irresponsible did you not share how antidepressants have helped you. There’s a lot of stuff that involves the lives of other people who need another approach, and might otherwise not find what helps them…. And there are a lot of adverse reactions to antidepressants.
A girl working at a coffee house who could talk to me, said she could not tell her parents antidepressants made her violent, and they didn’t allow her to quit, and she had to leave the home. I’ve shared what someone told me about the Columbine shootings above Feb.15th. Steve mentions kids in foster care facilities who can’t express what the antidepressants do to them. People committed to an asylum often can’t. And more. It’s very human, when we’ve found something that helps, and yet there’s further details confounding or contradicting that, to feel that’s not fair, but life isn’t that limited. I don’t know how it could exist to be the experience that it is were everything that uniform……
The amount of people having experienced and encountered what’s labeled as false memories, and have had such horrendous stuff, whether from sexual abuse, or mind control experiments involving such, and the rest of what society thinks it’s not nurturing when it believes it needs to train, pay and maintain others whose task is to wage trauma as population control (military, judicial, grades in school, religions going on about who goes to Heaven or Hell or who knows what, who gets paid and who doesn’t, etc.) and they can’t express what happened to them without being called crazy, or wouldn’t even feel free to remember given how they’d be treated would they, or are still controlled by their abuse because there’s no place for them to remember or in remember would be punished by either their abusers or the system that says it would protect them from such……
And then there’s the other side. A friend of mine who had two warring parents, the one abused the wife that the police were called regularly in her youth. And he actually was the first one that had their daughter admitted to an asylum, from what I remember because she was kissing someone in the halls of the college a friend of his reported her as doing. She was carted around from institution to institution for awhile. Came out of such in her later 20s, still regularly ending up in such places, although was fine most of the time and much loved and popular. But the mother so hated the father, understandably, that she coached the daughter as if she had been sexually abused by the father, followed a therapist doing the same. I remember talking to the mother going on about this as if she was uncovering something precious and would get points akin to the pastel colors on a hallmark card or the sentiments in so many family oriented movies with appropriate themes and then heralded as a wonderful saint who could smile at and bless people from her goodliness. Years passed, the daughter still going back and forth between acting like the overly loving mother or the aggressive willful father; after awhile she uncovered what the sexual abuse was. No, the father hadn’t sexually abused her, she had been on a boat with him, a trip or cruise, and had been raped by one of the sailors or crew on the boat. But with the mother coaching her to find something against the father, and the father’s anger, she was stuck for years trying to appease one or the other side. Then, even after the father had died, the mother had her daughter AGAIN put into an asylum, I had told her and the “friends” around the poor daughter what could happen was she once again put into an asylum, that they could loose her, but the mother even stated that she and Lilly’s father [posthumously] both thought she should be in the asylum. Then, because I had warned them, and also exposed the amount of lying that went on to have her put into an asylum, rather than acting like their concoctions of what she never did, but they thought she would, as if she had, and had told the police etc. then I’m made out to be something dangerous……. This is after I warned them that they could loose her, and she committed suicide a few months after having been put into an asylum, along with quite a few lies. That while she was still be “helped” by these “friends” that had her committed.
WHERE is a person supposed to go with all of this? I wouldn’t be able to warn them what happens when someone is institutionalized without being labeled as who knows what, can’t say that what others say really happened to them isn’t from the satanic scare or a false memory.
There was a whole slew of stuff coming out when the satanic scare, and false memory syndrome was introduced. There are a whole populace of people who know why, and they have their own network. I do have to add that again, when all sides are wanting to harness control, or a penal system set up to excuse using trauma as a means of population control through punishment or reward what’s called deterrent, and this sets up AGAIN the very institutions that excuse and promote the study of mind control through such means, whether for good or for bad, that it’s self perpetuating, especially for the “good” side……
Somehow, the fact that the moon isn’t hidden in contrast to the data regarding antidepressants and school shootings under the label medical confidentiality, I think this might have something to do regarding correlations between the moon and shootings. Also, the moon was there the whole time, I think, or would it or should it be introduced in one’s awareness regarding this or that treatment.
Apart from whether the moon should have a black box warning label that it can turn people into lunatics, or that we should project the Pepsi logos on it so people don’t know what it is anymore……
RFK didn’t say there was a causal link, he said you can’t make that statement because proper research hasn’t been done.
How many people have responded now that RFK said something he didn’t, to cover up whether or not proper research should be done?
Here AGAIN, from the article:
“RFK JR: I donât think anybody can answer that question, and I didnât answer that question⌠I said that it should be studied⌠because thereâs no science on that, Senator.
SENATOR SMITH: There is, Mr. Kennedy. Science shows that there is no link between school shootings and antidepressants. In fact, most school shooters were not even treated and with those that were, there was no evidence of associationâŚ
RFK JR: I donât think you can say⌠that, Senator. Because of HIPAA rules, nobody knows.”
Heh, I don’t mean to sound like YOU are ignoring a disorder, not the other guy……. That doesn’t work to begin with, I was trying to offer a solution, actually, but had to wade through…..
My point actually was simply waiting and see that life isn’t made to make us suffer. Instead of anesthetizing a hurt foot, wait till nature heals it, and see that the hurt is there to allow for the healing. If someone is sad, and it interfere’s with society deciding, or even paying them, regarding “functionality,” instead listen to them, they might have insights that are more pertinent than thinking everyone should be “happy” about how the system is working, running, set up etc.. And when the actually workings or emotions, reactions or responses are thus understood, rather than seeing them as a disease, then this might bring true positivity to the human condition, rather than discriminating against things people find difficult or disruptive or “inappropriate.”
The “disorder” I was going on about possibly being ignored might simply be that. Insight not allowed or labeled disruptive, patience dismissed as unrealistic, the illusion that at least something being done is better than “nothing…..”
I don’t find RFK ignoring someone’s suffering when he asks for real research to be done, would the information that’s hidden because of “confidentiality” be given forth. Certainly not when there’s the rest of what’s ignored, such as the long term revolving door syndrome with antidepressants, or that someone is pulled out of therapy, by the drug companies, when there’s not a drug intervention. Despite everything that’s known regarding long term results, what’s hidden because of “confidentiality.” I do think he’s ignoring people’s suffering when he promotes the slaughter of people in what he thinks is a just war. And there might possibly be quite a bit of insight missing regarding what he “thinks” is going on, or even is allowed to entertain as to what is going on, or what he thinks is a loss for whatever reason would he acknowledge [it]……
When you have hurt your foot, and you can’t walk, because the foot is healing, is this also a disease. You can test the lack of “ability” same as with any “psychiatric” disorder, the result being adding up to such diagnosis. Which IS the cause with ALL psychiatric disorders that there is NO clear proof they are biological, added to this when biological trauma is added, which CAN be labeled clearly as a biological disease CAUSED by treatment, there’s then USUALLY call for more of what in REALITY caused a biological disease, all in order to “treat” one.
Further more, yes a wound may be a sort of disorder, but calling it a disease etc. or treating it the way it is, regardless of what you call it, that’s a whole other matter.
It may be YOU who are denying disorders, and when they can be treated by means that expose what denies not only the disorders but what treats them to heal, you go on who is denying what!?
One can use pain killers to stop the foot from hurting, walk on the foot for a period that gets in the way of the healing, and then in the long term, when the foot hasn’t healed properly, or it’s the pain that’s made out to be a disease rather than why it’s there, what’s the result!?
Here is the whole paragraph regarding the fragment “Shane” quoted as being “frivolous.”
âThat this House is horrified at the recent increase in school shootings; is puzzled that the English language media failed to mention that in the Finnish tragedies, Mr. Pekka-Eric Auvinen said that he âate SSRI anti-depressantsâ which, he said, made him feel âaggressiveâ; notes that the perpetrators of 28 other school shootings, including at Columbine and in Minnesota, were also on anti-depressants; notes that anti-depressants, especially selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), have been proved to both sweep away self-regulating internal inhibitions while triggering explosive acts of violence and murderous behaviour; and calls for a study of the links between SSRI use and almost all school shootings and a rethink on the wisdom of the mass prescribing of anti-depressants to young people.â And one can click on the last sentence above quoted, for a link.
Numerous times it has been stated, as well as in the above article that the amount of involvement with psychiatric drugs isn’t really known because that information is withheld due to confidentiality reasons. ADDED to this, it’s constantly stated by the drug companies and the mental health system that more of what has been shown to correlate with the problem is necessary to get it to stop. (28 listed in above paragraph). With the amount of correlation already present, it would be responsible to look further. But then we get the responses shown here AGAIN that: “but the homicidal ideation is not linked to SSRI in any case or study” when in reality no such case or study is possible without the information that’s withheld. THAT IMHO I wouldn’t even call frivolous, that’s highly HIGHLY irresponsible, if not corrupt, biased filled with financial nepotism etc.
This is honoring confidentiality when the treatment could be correlating with causing a spike in the problem, but any study in such can be prevented by “confidentiality.” What does this SAY about informed consent to BEGIN with!?
Further more. To bring such logic as to when it’s going on here and not there this means the correlation with whatever isn’t going on, or is, or would, or wouldn’t, or whatever: since it’s stated that school shootings are a somewhat solely American phenomenon, “BTW, school shootings are a uniquely American misadventure, at least in terms of the frequency and tolerance.” and it not going on so much over there someplace else where antidepressants are also prescribed, although it’s not stated how much. Should we then also go stating that when women don’t wear Burkas in the United States, mostly, although coffee is popular in the US and Islam countries, that you can say there’s no correlation with the two in the US and “Islam” countries where women wear Burkas (if that is even true)? Or if the fashion starts in the US, for whatever reason, that it’s because of coffee? What if suddenly they stop drinking coffee over there, or over here, or on Mars? THEN what kind of correlation is there!? Because coffee is popular in both countries or situations? But we haven’t looked at Mars or Pluto…… I mean it WOULD have to correlate there too. Is NASA ready to start delivering coffee to those places so we have accurate info regarding Burkas!? Different countries are different countries, when one thing happening isn’t going on so much in the other this isn’t some magic as to cause and effect. Perhaps there are other correlations with antidepressants in other countries. As well as other things leading to whether school shootings are going on or not, which there would be quite a number of, not that an additional cause negates the other.
A simple simple look into WHEN the black box warning labels were put into place, and WHEN the antidepressants were approved would show ANYONE that the one is 1987 the other 2005. So, this statement is completely not true, never has been: “There has always been a disclaimer on these drugs that it could cause bad side effects in younger adults. “The drug companies tried to prevent this all the years they KNEW the side effects were going on, and they had ALREADY turned up when the initial trials were going on. ADDED to this, regarding HIGHLY addicted drugs that most people who are on can’t get off of without side effects often severe causing them to stay ON them. To simply say get off of them is quite insensitive. Added to that, neither general practitioners nor agents of the mental health system are particularly keen in knowing how to help someone having difficulty getting off such substances….
Neither is this a partisan issue regarding the mental health system at all, and whoever said what regarding Sandy Hook can hardly be put into a category of “Republicans,” as little as that what Hagee says is “Christian,” or that this statement of yours categorizes “the masses:” “I have been on Zoloft and never suicidal or wanting to kill anyone, I think the masses feel the same way.” And NO, I’m not “Republican,” in general I don’t vote for either major party in ways constituting one big “Business” party, and go for Greens.
I think that Peter Breggin, when he testified in court cases regarding the influence of antidepressants on people who otherwise didn’t behave such, and returned to their other self when off of them, that this might start to point out what’s not really been looked into.
When you look at the difference, same as perhaps with alcohol, that situations a person wouldn’t have associated with violence, that the antidepressants, whether it’s the initial increase in serotonin with the re-uptake inhibition, or the decrease when the body stops making as much because of the inhibition…… that this might act like when anything is disrupted, like shaking anything up, that connections are made that otherwise wouldn’t be, and that people, when they believe violence is a tool to be used, start making such connections that otherwise wouldn’t have been going on. You’d actually have to talk to these people in a way that allows for such inner searching to be going on, but I don’t really see that’s encouraged or understood with how any kind of “research” is going on. To find out simply, “I wouldn’t have thought this was necessary, or wouldn’t have done this,” compared to when there wasn’t the influence of the drug. But then, one would have to also point out that people who don’t invest in violence, they don’t have this problem added to that the logic regarding non violence, or pacifism, and that AGAIN is something research is going to shy away from, and would rather find pacifism “crazy.” As if such a community can’t exist, so it’s not even considered.
And I don’t find it crazy to consider that when people are supposed to believe violence is a necessary resort, and deterrence, and trauma policing such, that perhaps taking an antidepressant in order to avoid the real feelings inside causes the eruption of violence that is considered crazy or criminal. But then what if such investments in such (violence, deterrence, trauma) weren’t condoned to begin with, whether they were considered appropriate or not? There might be no sadness to need to escape from as if one has to loose one’s humanity to be functional, nor the need for finding a solution that causes the disruption that shows what such investments cause when at large to make “crazy” or illegal connection, placed there as appropriate but falling prey to what happens with……
“I don’t want to have to feel this way, don’t want to have to think about it, it can’t be that non violence works…..”
You shake things up, as antidepressants do with serotonin upon initial use and after “stabilization” or when going off, and that belief that such is necessary finds a crazy or criminal connection…… shake anything up and that belief makes connection that weren’t there before……sane, criminal, crazy whatever……..
And yet it remains at large considered “crazy” to think one is safe without such a belief, such excuses for violence.
And I don’t see the real experience or data of how time resonates when such beliefs are discarded actually freely shared, without it so often being called crazy, or non realistic belief in miracles etc. Or denied, even when there is clear data…… whether sociological or physical
To have something prescribed as a medication, have insurances pay for it, also have insurances inhibit therapy when it’s not prescribed, have this forced on people in an asylum setting, have them mostly prescribed without informed consent, added that these “medications” cause chemical imbalance while being falsely made out to be treating them, have these “medications” approved under a number of severely questioning if not corrupt means…..
Well yeah, alcohol, street drugs like cocaine etc. might find the same audience, as say sugar has etc. Should these also then be handed out be insurances under false advertisement? Because there are certainn people where that: âdisabling of normal functionâ can help some people depending on the case at hand.” Is this some convenience to make them “medications.”
Here again, is what went on when these “medications” were FDA approved, although I understand I’m supposed to be intimidated by now to instead be disassociating from such truths as I’ve been told I’m being repetitive, saying nothing, making this site look bad, and “making it less likely for other people to read comments or engage with audiences on articles.” when I don’t disassociate:
The plethora of devices used to approve of antidepressants, are the same kind of games.
1) In trials used for approval often enough a sizeable amount of people had to leave the controlled group, because of the side effects of the medications, this wasnât counted. In fact sometimes more had to leave than stayed.
Prozak side effecs http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/prozaceffex.html
2)People in the non control group who got better the first couple of weeks were taken out, as if they then werenât depressed, although had been tested before hand. This ALSO rigs the odds despite the pseudo scientific label of âwashout period.â And why would it have to be done, were the drugs so helpful?
3)Because they werenât getting the results they wanted to, people in the trials were taken who already were on psychiatric drugs, so they were either used to having their neurotransmitters messed around with, they had been coerced into acknowledging the drugs helped them or labeled non compliant, which could mean commitment, or they indeed found the drugs helpful. In any case, this isnât about an antidepressant anymore.
4)The same goes for people in the control group being given a sedative because of the amount of akithesia, this AGAIN is not about an antidepressant, but a drug cocktail already.
5)The period in the trials where those in the control group had to get off of a drug that wasnât approved yet wasnât reported at first, but when looked into it showed how people were having severe withdrawal symptoms. Couldnât sleep, couldnât stay awake, fevers, seizuresâŚ
6)There were many trials that took place, but only those with favorable results were used, and then there was still only a marginal efficacy shown, AFTER all of the game playing aboveâŚ.
It’s amazing how you mention it’s not bad to be addicted to something, and then completely skip the fact that most likely, when the person was MADE addicted to the substance they WERE NOT given informed consent. This is found to be just fine, to report blah blah blah about antidepressants, not really say how addictive they are, not say they cause chemical imbalance, not even say they interfere with normal functions of the brain. Then when a person has been made addicted to that, and have to compromise themselves or deal with withdrawal symptoms, then all of a sudden it’s fine, what’s going on that a person most likely was NOT told would be the end result. There’s the mindfreedom hunger strike already 2003 because of the false advertising, which they APA completely excused, came up with the same attempts at shaming someone you have repeated here. https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ I repeatedly have brought such things up, and you left a post below, as if I’m being repetitive, bringing this site down, not saying anything, having posts that are incredibly long……..(I do have the longest posts, or are you referring to something no one else can see?) Who do you think you’re coaching? I am supposed to believe it? I’m not here to be brainwashed in such a fashion because I say things one isn’t supposed to mention when they are part of an assumed reality, or just stuff people don’t want to hear, because it challenges their compromises.
When what is “helping you” is turning off natural articulate parts of the brain, to get a person on such they have to be told the opposite of what it does, that it causes a chemical imbalance, rather than treating one. And when this is shared, every time it should be, one BY YOU is called repetitive, because they aren’t going to negate simple honesty, and informed consent, it becomes clear what’s going on….. including there seems to be an implication of: “stop telling me the emperor has no clothes one, that’s repetitive, you’re saying nothing because I don’t want to hear that and just ignore it so call it nothing, making others ( who don’t want to hear whether whoever has whatever going on ) not want to engage with the “audience” here, and bringing this site down, when one isn’t going to want to turn of normal functions of the brain” (one would hope healthy is what normal means) healthy enough that it is interested in articulate science, rather than scientism that says that being given a chemical imbalance is treating one….
Annoying isn’t it, a healthy brain that the normal functions aren’t hampered!? (note, I’m being sarcastic…..)
You REALLY might consider not trying to make people think that when they are articulate enough to not be intimidated as if they will be punished to say things others don’t want to hear, because those others disassociate from such necessary challenges, that there is some loss of community……..
For those who have blinders on, and can’t see the connections others express, calling them super long and unfocused when it goes into areas they haven’t the experience, willingness, or open mindedness to engage with, this isn’t a brainwashing site. And deciding, as if you know, what engages people or doesn’t, as if you have been monitoring this site, have gotten whoever wants to fill out the kind of forms one gets so often regarding what gets them to want to engage with this site and what doesn’t, and know who reads what for whatever reason, what makes it more or less likely for others to read, comment or engage with audiences on articles; even were you involved with the science of creating click bait, knowing what words to use, what colors to make what part of pages to steer eyes in whatever direction, how to get people to interact, or “engage” with audiences possibly made into such trigger happy addicts, no matter how large of an audience you were concocting thus, what would this be accomplishing was anyone doing otherwise? And what would be bringing this or ANY other site down?
People express themselves as human by the way, not as what’s going to engage with a following inarticulate enough to call anything beyond their parameters of comfort too long, unfocused, repetitive and saying very little etc….., while in the meantime indeed saying nothing, being unfocused and repetitive themselves. When anyone doesn’t understand what another says, refuses to be flexible enough to open the avenues of understanding necessary to understand what another is saying, or look into data that they otherwise are discriminatory against, and then feels the need to stereotype or discriminate, yeah, it’s easy to say they aren’t saying anything and are repetitive, but that’s the person discriminating against what another says, not what the other is saying… I think…….
Dear “Renate Smith” For something not to be a poison, it would have to be proven that it treats a chemical imbalance rather than causing one, but as yet, all that really has been proven is that it [antidepressants] CAUSES one, INCLUDING the real data regarding recovery (in the long term there’s more of the revolving door syndrome than without any “treatment”, or read the recent article how antidepressants in reality double the chance of suicide, or any of the other articles that are based on science not on consumerism, and what sells)….
ALL the people who have had their lives ruined, or their loved ones have every right to call such agents poisons.
YOU may call that stigma, but a person addicted to any substance, alcohol, nicotine etc. that has been PROVEN to be a poison, might say the same thing. In fact many of the street drugs that say back 3/4rs or more of a century ago that were prescribed, and had the same amount of people heralding them, those are now street drugs, like cocaine, meth, etc. More poisons.
And then you come here and attack someone who says spirituality has shown her there’s not as much depression as we are told. And you call it ridiculous. Would anyone truly look at the statistics, rather than bantering around catch phrases like you do, and have done dotting this site with what everyone who has looked into true statistics, science, and something beyond mainstream push, they would know what ridiculous is. Would anyone look at all of that, it’s clear what HOPE says, and there are any number of ways to express that, be it spirit, truth, intelligence, perspective etc.
You make this statement, which is like the golden idol of the drug companies:
“There are physical illnesses, so why not mental or do you only believe what you can see?”
Oh, this is believing in something you can’t see, when it is heralded as treating a chemical imbalance, in reality causes one, in the long term correlates with more relapsing, but heh, you don’t believe in it, you only believe in what you can see. The emperor’s clothes included, then….. anyone that points such out only believe in what he can see…
If it works for you, all the rest can be ignored?
No, antidepressants have been proven to cause chemical imbalance, they disable normal function of the brain, and long term they cause more relapsing, and as you can read here double the chance of suicide. To say all of that addresses a mental illness because there are physical illnesses is the one thing that’s ridiculous, NOT Hope’s statement regarding spirituality. You might as well say you fix a loose shelf with a hammer and a nail, so who says there aren’t mental illnesses, or a car runs on gasoline, so who says there aren’t mental illnesses. And in CONTRAST to denying poisons are poisons, and heralding something that causes a chemical imbalance as something treating one because otherwise someone only believes what they see: There ARE however physical things that heal “mental illnesses” and one of the things statistically is non treatment with “medications” psychiatry doles out. YOU being of the minority that it works for DOES NOT change such statistics. Nor does the marketing, nor the addictions, nor the consumerism, nor that in reality since the implementation of the biological method there’s more mental illness, this DOES NOT correlate with needing more of what correlates with the spike. THAT is why there’s this book called Anatomy of an Epidemic. Exercise, healthy food, not being around people causing alarmist responses, what went on in the first asylums by the Quakers where it was only a peaceful healthy place (not a drugging zone), Soteria house, Healing Homes of Finland etc. etc. The “Mental Health” Industry taking the asylum setting the Quakers started and introducing what correlates with the spike (THEIR medications) and then convincing everyone that means more treatment needs to be forced on people, this is believing in something one can’t see, because there are “physical” illnesses!?
And you make statements no one can make [unless uninformed, brainwashed, or indoctrinated], for example: “And, yes, there can be side effects, but they are not usually severe and the alternative of living without them tends to be MUCH more severe.” Statistics again prove otherwise, that more recovery happens without any such controlled substance. DESPITE the games the drug companies play, such as taking people off a anti-psychotics or neuroleptics, taking them off cold turkey, then taking others used to such and putting them on another drug that works enough the same that THEY don’t have withdrawal symptoms, but those compared to turkeys for a lack of description DO have withdrawal symptoms, thus supposedly the drugs work: yes, then you can go on about something tending to be more severe. THAT is called unacknowledged withdrawal symptoms. And THOSE come from a chemical imbalance the DRUGS caused NOT “the disease.” Same with other addictive substances.
The plethora of devices used to approve of antidepressants, are the same kind of games.
1) In trials used for approval often enough a sizeable amount of people had to leave the controlled group, because of the side effects of the medications, this wasn’t counted. In fact sometimes more had to leave than stayed.
Prozak side effecs http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/prozaceffex.html
2)People in the non control group who got better the first couple of weeks were taken out, as if they then weren’t depressed, although had been tested before hand. This ALSO rigs the odds despite the pseudo scientific label of “washout period.” And why would it have to be done, were the drugs so helpful?
3)Because they weren’t getting the results they wanted to, people in the trials were taken who already were on psychiatric drugs, so they were either used to having their neurotransmitters messed around with, they had been coerced into acknowledging the drugs helped them or labeled non compliant, which could mean commitment, or they indeed found the drugs helpful. In any case, this isn’t about an antidepressant anymore.
4)The same goes for people in the control group being given a sedative because of the amount of akithesia, this AGAIN is not about an antidepressant, but a drug cocktail already.
5)The period in the trials where those in the control group had to get off of a drug that wasn’t approved yet wasn’t reported at first, but when looked into it showed how people were having severe withdrawal symptoms. Couldn’t sleep, couldn’t stay awake, fevers, seizures…
6)There were many trials that took place, but only those with favorable results were used, and then there was still only a marginal efficacy shown, AFTER all of the game playing above….
That all of that worked for you, that doesn’t change any of the science or statistics. In fact, most people who STILL will be presented with antidepressants as a viable solution will NOT be told anything truly akin to informed consent……
In 2003 mind freedom international had a hunger strike challenging the APA to come up with proof that antidepressants treated a chemical imbalance. They couldnât do that, you can read about this here: https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/
That was 2003. Then in 2005 the drug companies were forced to have a black box warning label put on antidepressants, this was expanded in 2007.
In MULTIPLE cases, regarding whether antidepressants or other psychiatric drugs were involved that evidence is withheld for reasons of confidentiality. This is QUITE remarkable regarding correlation that in any other setting one would find it irresponsible to not share. And so when Kennedy is told by another politician that there is scant evidence, he responds that one canât say this, and the other politician actually makes a statement that no one can make. When THAT MUCH information is withheld itâs quite impossible. But thatâs how it goes with those coached by drug company lobbyists.
Beyond that I have my own anecdotal story to tell. I was on a bus, and heard a man with a sarcastic tone mention his doctor had suggested antidepressants. I went and talked to him, knowing why he would have such a tone. The man had his own story beyond that. He told me he had had a foster care facility close to Columbine, and both the kids in the shootings would go to his foster care facility, and just play pool. They told how they were bullied at school, had gone to the principle, who sent them to the sherif, who send them to the principle, etc. Nothing was done, which happens so often, if not mostly too often in any school setting involving bullying. And then the ring leader of the two as is reported here already was put on an antidepressant, had it changed to Luvox close to the time line before the shootings. And the man on the bus said that he had complained about these âmedicationsâ making him angry at everyone. His parents, his friends, his girlfriend, everyone, and the doctor said to just keep taking them. Then the shootings happened. There was a court case pending, but that was bought out by the drug companies. That was 1999âŚ. How much more is missing, from then, and afterwards as well!?
Of course the idea has to be there, that violence solves ANYTHING, but this society is so full of such excuses that would one believe in non violence most politician would make this out to be crazy or unrealistic, consequently those thoughts are floating, such excuses are potentially there as motives in how many peopleâs mind, and then with antidepressants, how they jiggle up first causing with serotonin reuptake being suppressed more serotonin, and then later, after the body has noticed this to start making as much, causes less serotonin to be produced, you get first too much, and then a deficiency. With such disabling of the brain, and also REM sleep being suppressed, you get people responding without having the physical brain activity to think things through (oh, I feel fine now, canât see why I was upset before), and beyond that the area of brain activity used for REM dreaming, where thereâs sleep paralyses, and people can work out their emotions in a dream, this is suppressed, and you can have the whole array of beliefs going on in dreams starting to drift into oneâs awareness. Someone sees a fictitous danger somewhere, believes itâs real, and there you go. Or responds without thinking. Peter Breggin has testified in numerous court cases that exactly that was going on. I lose sight of how many times Iâve read something inexplicable going on in a news article involving violence, and then a statement such as âso and so was being treated for depression,â or suchâŚâŚ And AGAIN all of that is withheld from being reported because of confidentialityâŚ.
So what is it doing to be. Are we going to honor what Jesus, Buddha, and so many other simple normal people have seen as how things work, to honor non violence and the potential that allows, and works, despite people saying that unrealistic and crazy; or is it these âantidepressantsâ confusing peopleâs minds, making them think that a disabled mind is a happy one, but then you have these in explicable acts going on that are covered up for confidentiality reasonsâŚ..
Is that whatâs going on? Who thinks that happiness is turning people into robots susceptible to programming? Why do we need all of these excuses for violence, and what kind of people does that quake on all sides of it, whether itâs those implimenting such âtreatmentsâ or the results in those being âtreated.â
But would any answer be made to this, the information thatâs not given out would have to be shared, and perhaps people would have to see that non violence IS possible rather than all the excuses for it. As yet, I donât see that any gun has popped up on its own and started shooting people, or is that yet to come with AI!?
Again, hereâs how antidepressants were approvedâŚ..
1) In trials used for approval often enough a sizeable amount of people had to leave the controlled group, because of the side effects of the medications, this wasn’t counted. In fact sometimes more had to leave than stayed.
2)People in the non control group who got better the first couple of weeks were taken out, as if they then weren’t depressed, although had been tested before hand. This ALSO rigs the odds despite the pseudo scientific label of “washout period.” And why would it have to be done, were the drugs so helpful?
3)Because they weren’t getting the results they wanted to, people in the trials were taken who already were on psychiatric drugs, so they were either used to having their neurotransmitters messed around with, they had been coerced into acknowledging the drugs helped them or labeled non compliant, which could mean commitment, or they indeed found the drugs helpful. In any case, this isn’t about an antidepressant anymore.
4)The same goes for people in the control group being given a sedative because of the amount of akithesia, this AGAIN is not about an antidepressant, but a drug cocktail already.
5)The period in the trials where those in the control group had to get off of a drug that wasn’t approved yet wasn’t reported at first, but when looked into it showed how people were having severe withdrawal symptoms. Couldn’t sleep, couldn’t stay awake, fevers, seizures…
6)There were many trials that took place, but only those with favorable results were used, and then there was still only a marginal efficacy shown, AFTER all of the game playing above….
I notice that with this paragraph, I typed, I seriously get something akin to lost or “duzzy” (was “supposed” to be dizzy, hit the “u” rather than the “i,” but then there’s fuzzy as well, as how things start to look) trying to navigate through all of the cherry picking. No insult to cherries, and sorry I can’t find better terminology actually at this moment.
“Clearly there are many quite desperate people looking for help, and then those who seem to feel relieved when theyâve been given a chemical imbalance, even though told they are being treated for one, and the chemical imbalance they didnât have before treatment (WITH âantidepressantsâ) suppresses symptoms. AGAIN, you can say that you see a REDUCTION in suicides, but whatâs the long term result, and WHAT is the âREDUCTIONâ you are talking about, if itâs in regard to what usually happens with âantidepressantsâ or in âtherapy?â OUR TREATMENT HAS LESS SUICIDES THAN OTHER TREATMENTS doesnât mean that no treatment has less, which is again here stated that that IS the caseâŚâŚ..”
“Our treatment has less SUICIDES THAT OTHER TREATMENTS doesn’t mean that no treatment has less,” is actually supposed to be:
Our treatment has less SUICIDES THAN OTHER TREATMENTS doesn’t mean that no treatment has more….. Given that the statement is supposed to mean their treatment causes a reduction……. but a reduction compared to WHAT!?
Sorry, with this jiggling around not even looking at what no “medications” statistically correlate with, who knows what is being used as reference.
Also, perhaps the above article shared that those who haven’t been made to think they need treatment, although encountering the same problems as those who do, that they commit suicide less. What does that say about what’s labeled as “treatment” IN GENERAL!?
And to speak of a reduction in suicides when: “When appropriate we see much measurable benefit and a REDUCTION in suicidal behavior and completed suicides” again completely doesn’t say whether this is in reference to the amount of suicides in general when “medication” is introduced, or whether it’s referring to when no medications (or even therapy) is introduced.
THAT is where we’re at also, when most reported suicide attempts are receiving “medications” and somehow there’s a reduction in the amount of consequent suicides completed in general when medications are introduced according to this phrase: “when appropriate”, then one can ignore that with no “medications” whether there are completely less, either way. We don’t know that, it’s not at all clearly stated. And again the information here shared in this article by Peter is clear, in comparison……
The statement made by Mister Cole isn’t clear.
This statement also is quite something: “neither I nor anyone of us in our psychiatry group feel pressured to prescribe unless we determine itâs appropriate” Who is determining what? To begin with is there even informed consent going on that such “medications” CAUSE chemical imbalance, when they are said to be treating one? Beyond that, at what point can such even be hidden, and ANYONE decide its appropriate to administer without informed consent, and informed consent can be denied, along with what’s shared here regarding statistical information, long term outcome etc.
HE is determining what’s appropriate, not the patient!?
AGAIN “there is a reduction in people committing suicide because of our treatment,” when it’s completely not shared whether no treatment has less of the problem which AGAIN is what the article above states……..
So that should read, perhaps: “there is a reduction of people committing suicide when the suicide is caused by our manner of treatment [using “medications”] when we determine medications are appropriate, this in comparison to the usual statistics of how many suicides the medications cause.”
Is there informed consent with all of this ETC.!?
We don’t know that that’s not the case, and all these games played with words to hide statistics……….
CONVINCING someone something is going to help them is quite different than whether or not it really is. AKA actually READ above article…….[perhaps]
And sorry regarding the mixup of whether I use positive or negative (in this case also, I wouldn’t necessarily call the negentropy, it’s just being overloaded), I hadn’t caught that yet, and it happens in other posts, but in context it does become clear what’s referred to, despite the mistakes…..
the link I tried to share above for some reason didn’t show up in blue (at least on my computer click on links usually are blue) and as a click on, so I try see if this works:
Well, I see both work. Apparently one has to supply a certain amount of space (more than just one open space a character would otherwise be in), for a link to be recognized as such…..
Does this make anyone else laugh? If there’s a “solution” implemented that correlates with a spike in the problem, where pray tell is the rebuttal missing? Or thoughtful responses? And who is not allowing such responses? And what does “hope” have to do with this?
This statement: “Adding a thoughtful response and, perhaps, rebuttal to the authorâs important points would add to the discussion and deepen our understanding.” needs to be made EVERYWHERE where what’s reported here is missing and not allowed. Which in reality, objectively is in most places labeled as being medical.
Note: anyone can, unless there’s copyright issues, then you can make up your own post similar, clip this response, this post: “Adding a thoughtful response and, perhaps, rebuttal to the authorâs important points would add to the discussion and deepen our understanding. I hope the newsletter can provide this.” and then copy it (or use your own similar statement) in ANY place online where what’s here exposed is heralded as being a solution or a treatment. Because where rebuttal is missing is where such a statement should be made, not where it isn’t.
I find this absolutely AMAZING again, the extent, the barrage of attempts to distract from what’s really being said when the truth comes out.
1) Anyone in an asylum, that has become ward of the state because they had a normal understandable, potential enlightening response to life that might bring out natural intelligence rather than socially instilled indoctrination (not conforming to statistical based norms, consensual reality deportment, the status quo….), would they have to deal with any psychiatrist there just about, and would they share the information clearly stated above that is supported statistically and scientifically, the psychiatrist is free to, and often mostly would decide they are non compliant to “treatment” then forcing them on what in the end makes things worse. And we get what’s called the revolving door syndrome, more of the problem causing alarmist responses used to say what’s causing more of it needs to be implimented because then “SOMETHING” has been done. In the meantime the same nonsense of how something creating a chemical imbalance (the “medications”) is treating one is made out to be what it isn’t, all to disable a brain that might be able to make sense out of what is being suppressed. But any information actually pointing any of this out is not allowed, just like in a fascist system, all for the sake of allowing, and coercing and forcing treatment that correlates with more of the problem, to then say there’s more need of it in general. But heh, when someone points this out in one of the only areas that it’s allowed, the very information ANYONE would need to know that’s hidden, then we get the above response, and there’s talk of “a thoughtful response.” In other words don’t actually tell me the emperor has no clothes on, you have to gentle say something that might get me to in some odd way entertain this as a faint possibility, otherwise it’s insensitive and thoughtless, because I can’t deal with the truth. Or just don’t actually contradict me, that’s not thoughtful, I’m too brainwashed, or simply dishonest while profiting from the lie, as if there’s some loss not to “profit” from such.
2) The place where rebuttal is MISSING I have already mentioned (and true scientific and statistical data), but there’s no real responsible attention to that, or what would indeed heighten EVERYONE’S understanding, bring what “would add to the discussion and deepen our understanding” but no, such phrases have to be used to make sure that God forbid someone should actually state the truth, we have to have again what’s only been allowed to be stated, shared, reported where those being forced on a treatment that makes the problem worse might find out that statistically things get worse where upon they are told they need more of what statistically gets worse…..
The very attempt to make out that here where one is completely allowed to challenge what’s said is missing counterpoint, when in reality it’s not missing here at all. Counterpoint is allowed here in contrast to where what here is being exposed as making things worse while saying it’s making things better is yet making things worse.
That’s called fascism, fundamentalism, brainwashing, etc…
I guess sacrificing a virgin or beheading someone (look see, no signs of mental illness after a beheading, all symptoms are gone despite the severe side effect) just is a bit extreme these days as we worship the pill, the status quo and consumerism.
Anyone being responsible enough to contradict this is not being “thoughtful.”
I had a friend who actually facilitated a writer’s circle at a place for those who were disenfranchised. A ministry that since has gone belly up, like so much recently. But he had told me that he was mad when he woke up alive after his first suicide attempt. He also had been forced into treatment by his family, I think. He had given a speech, I think as president of his highschool at their graduation, and when they didn’t like the truths he said about what the education was geared for, they turned off his mike, rather than letting him finish. He did still write for the local press, actually, and his writing was absolutely pristine. He had actually gotten with a literary agent, was writing a book, but had a problem with his editor suggesting quite a change. I don’t remember whether it was a change of a character’s gender or something more dramatic, which I can easily see would be highly annoying, as I’ve written myself already four novels I haven’t looked into presenting to literary agents (excuse me Dickens, Shakespeare, etc. in fact just about all of the writers that have given us the ground work for literature had no need for such), and I’ve read SO MANY paint by number books with highly fabricated plots, characters, morals, situations etc. offered at say Barnes and Nobles, also by ex or current literary agent editors, I rather shield myself would I a have to deal with such dissecting my work, just to keep it alive rather than mechanized. He said he had trouble with drinking, and after the suggestion, he said something irate, and I don’t know if he hung up, but then was dropped by his literary agent. I sincerely doubt there was real interest in the quality of his work, which was extremely high. When I shared stuff, he was extremely articulate in seeing the structure of what I was expressing, which he could do in acute detail, so I could see how he could be annoyed would someone start distracting him to such a degree he would lose have to compromise time given to his actual creativity to deal with such suggestions. I guess I haven’t even processed such a loss, because I only suddenly heard that he had committed suicide.   And I know that all of the “treatment” he was forced on, the addictions to controlled substances he was coerced and forced into having to deal with, the consequent loss of mental acuity not being allowed when having a healthy enough brain to make those oppressing him paranoid anymore would his true instincts and reflexes emerge. I guess I haven’t processed his death, I somehow thought he was [IS] Scriabin, and going back realize how what I experienced of him, his pristine clarity, how it reflects music he might have already have given to the world before deciding to try once again. WELL, regardless of objectivity, whether “Scriabin” is part of us because that’s the nature of art, and it as a resource for the human soul, or him, or me, or you……. Well, so in remembering this friend, I recorded this, fourth take….. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QcUh_ezANjEPvXCUKdLMEVbALV7YTCBy/view?usp=sharing  And in steeling myself from my tears, I realize he was there when I heard someone play the Grieg concerto this past Friday….. because he is part of the emotions of art, and the healing it brings and THAT remains…..
I do find it perhaps beyond disgusting ( and typical and worth ignoring), that two people come to this site, don’t really acknowledge the severity of what’s shared in this article, and then go on about the cosmetics of language, which clearly is avoiding the real issue when people aren’t getting the help they need. Or simply left alone and given some legroom to find out what’s going on with them……
You haven’t explained at all why using the term committed causes stigma. I looked at the AFSP sight, and regarding “treatment” the first thing they say is that “Mental health professionals have specialized training to identify and understand problems that may be causing you discomfort or putting you at risk, and also in helping people with a variety of mental disorders. They can prescribe medicine, or can connect you with someone who can determine whether you need medication.” from here: https://afsp.org/find-a-mental-health-professional/ Since your response is mostly cut and paste from over there, here is from your post: “some may find this petty” or “Call me sensitive” or “Thank you for your kind consideration,” don’t cover up the fact you are quoting from a site that does exactly what this article says causes more of the problem. In reality you are trying to make out we are “insensitive,” “petty,” and “inconsiderate” would we be articulate enough to actually look at what’s being reported rather than tilting our head sideways with a concerned: “hmmmmmm” in our gaze because we followed “appropriate” cosmetology…
To be coached by someone to say: “I attempted suicide” rather than “I unsuccessfully tried committing suicide,” this is going to change the statistics more than actually acknowledging that the treatment in general makes it worse? In fact, it won’t will it? (note, that’s a rhetorical question)
I almost can’t see how you could be more contradictory. You talk about not painting everyone with the same brush, and yet clearly state how insurances do that. Sharing statistics in general regarding “medications” is EXACTLY that, but one can’t say this without supposedly painting everyone with the same brush? The statistics shared in this article are what they are, and speak for themselves, fussing about terminology, or calling it outdated also doesn’t dismiss ANY of the statistics. Nor, does stating that in your practice, according to you, you see measurable benefit, and a reduction in suicidal behavior: one would have to talk to the patient themselves, and take the statistics from what they are, not as anecdotal evidence from someone making a living off of it. There are enough, for example, alcoholics that would say they need alcohol, or they can’t function, or any number of other substances (sugar, coffee, highly processed foods with all manner of what’s in them including food coloring, preservatives, MSG etc.), those selling such substances would make the same remarks you just have, might even fuss about the same cosmetic determinates to sound articulate, regarding terminology. You say you see “REDUCTION” in suicides, as if we can’t hear you, but it would be quite bleak would anyone say they help with suicides but this part of their treatment results in less reductions, although usually such treatment results in more. Still, this is what the article says is statistically the result. WHY do you have to state what the medications should be doing, when in general they do the opposite? What does this say about your ability to really deal with the emotional part of what’s going on when it gets critical. Why would anyone profit off of being given a chemical imbalance, while they are told it’s to treat a chemical imbalance, and the rest of the publicity stunts such as calling something which causes more suicides in general than not, has had to have a black warning label against the wishes of the drug companies, because it causes homicidal and suicidal behavior and ideation. The drugs were only approved after being given in trials with a sedative, along with getting people in the trials already on psychiatric drugs meaning they were used to having their brain chemistry, their neurotransmitters messed around with. Many of the trials had an incredible amount of people having to leave the control group because of side effects which wasn’t counted. Those in the non control group that got better after a week or two were taken out, also not counted. After the trial, those in the control group who had severe withdrawal symptoms (fever like symptoms, not being able to go to sleep, not being able to stay awake, seizures, etc.), this wasn’t reported at first. Plus, there were many many trials, and only those that in the end, after many tries came out as the companies wanted were used, all the others discarded. THAT is what you use as you state: “neither I nor anyone of us in our psychiatry group feel pressured to prescribe unless we determine itâs appropriate. While we concur careful selection & monitoring is important, we shouldnât paint entire classes of medications or patients with a single brush. ” Excuse me also, but calling something that causes more suicides than when not prescribed, what exactly does this have to do with painting ANYTHING with a single brush? and then: “When appropriate we see much measurable benefit and a REDUCTION in suicidal behavior and completed suicide” Do you have ANY notion of how such a statement is used as cherry picking, and anyone saying they have been helped given awards in order to keep the statistics very clearly stated in this article going, that despite antidepressants causing more suicides than not, they are still implimented, you even state how the drug companies get insurances to promote this. Clearly there are many quite desperate people looking for help, and then those who seem to feel relieved when they’ve been given a chemical imbalance, even though told they are being treated for one, and the chemical imbalance they didn’t have before treatment (WITH “antidepressants”) suppresses symptoms. AGAIN, you can say that you see a REDUCTION in suicides, but what’s the long term result, and WHAT is the “REDUCTION” you are talking about, if it’s in regard to what usually happens with “antidepressants” or in “therapy?” OUR TREATMENT HAS LESS SUICIDES THAN OTHER TREATMENTS doesn’t mean that no treatment has less, which is again here stated that that IS the case……..
WHERE are you coming from? “Is it our treatment here, when implimented in an “appropriate” manner causes less suicides then such treatment in general.” Or is it “this fragment here of what’s going on where the result is more of what is trying to be prevented, this little fragment here causes less suicides than no treatment?”
Whether it’s whatever it is: “depression,” “confusion or disinhibition called psychosis,” ” not being able to concentrate or be brainwashed or indoctrinated,” etc. we are to believe there’s no reason for this? God forbid someone should find out WHY they are sad, what that feeling is really about, what it teaches us, what perspective if might have, if you don’t like something, then there’s something wrong with you, God forbid you would get out of the situation. God forbid the rose colored glasses are taken from between one’s senses and the world. God forbid one would see what the mob doesn’t want to, and criticizes anyone do they see what indoctrination says one shouldn’t. Or other forms of sadness. If you lost a loved one, does the sadness help you remember the things you can’t forget, that are still with you, and might still mean they simply have transformed into another dimension etc. That they are still there in a way beyond the physical…. This God awful nonsense that one is to discriminate against a feeling….. I even had a friend who committed suicide (sorry that’s how I describe it, doesn’t change it to say she killed herself, nor do I see how that is going to help a person in such a situation other than making those “in the profession” feel better they are fussing about something that makes it sound like they are sensitive, while not really possibly relating to begin with), she committed suicide, although as soon as I was told, I had contact with her from the other side, just about; regardless, a trance medium, nothing to do with me knowing or any communication between us, happened to see some sort of flyer or so about the poor girl, and then channeled a message from her that “happened” to end up in the hands of someone I had just met, who “happened” to put her hand on it out of nowhere, that it was laying there during a phone conversation, not knowing I knew this girl at all. Then read me this message. Part of the message was that killing herself didn’t help her depression [SIC]….. (is there a difference between trying to turn off this feeling made out to be a disease with “medications” and committing suicide to get rid of it!?) this is what happens in a society where you’re not supposed to feel, where feelings are made out to be enemies, where so much… (confusion, God forbid one should find out WHY they are confused, that there might be emotional stuff they’re not supposed to see, or WHY they would disinhibit themselves to see past limitations holding them back, say perhaps to understand feelings as multidimensional)…. One feels all the time, by the way. How you pick up a pencil, open a door, all of this expresses something about yourself, how you’re feeling what is going on on the inside, it’s not like it’s helpful to become a robot and think that has nothing to do with anything…… Being human isn’t some loss that we aren’t machines……….
“The ones who boldly state that there must be something âwrongâ or âtoxicâ with the loved ones who are advocating for their mentally ill family member have obviously not experienced this personally and can not possibly understand the seriousness of this issue.” This is called I think a straw man argument. People here simply are STATING what correlates with recovery, and what doesn’t. PERIOD. That a family member is calling for what doesn’t correlate with recovery, doesn’t change such statistics, nor does it excuse the family member by saying they are being blamed as being “toxic” or whatever. It’s simply what has shown to most correlate with recovery, and here again see what hasn’t. PERIOD. full stop.
“I personally know someone whose husband was killed by her mentally ill son. If he had been on medication and connected to a supportive community, her husband would likely still be alive and her son would not be serving a life sentence in jail.” The real statistics that have been shown during and since the biological model of mental illness shows otherwise. There has only been a dramatic spike in such problems, and yet again, then there is the call for more of what correlates with the spike.
And it hardly seems the psychiatric medications that mess around with neurotransmitters the same as street drugs, that these are going to be a solution for whatever escape someone believes they are attaining. The seriously might be some deeper emotional issue going on that AGAIN the people who have experience with this, when not promoting the biological method, aren’t given the opportunity to help. In fact the whole understanding of emotional language, behavior and responses could be missing. It’s easy to call someone mentally unstable, but when there’s something going on that hasn’t been given the space to be understood, is there wasn’t “instability” what is preventing the reactions, the responses, the behavior from being understood might still be “stable” in getting in the way…….
Just a few points:
1) When a system promoting the biological method of psychiatry, saying that chemical imbalances are being treated, while in reality causing chemical imbalance in order to disable health brain activity and suppress what they call symptoms, and then after the interim that symptoms are suppressed causing more symptoms, to call the lack of this “unmedicated” not only misuses the word medication, but also doesn’t point out that no doubt the person was “medicated” or forced on controlled substances to begin with, then given no help to get off of them, possibly just having the “medications” changed as if there was no withdrawal symptom, having ALL effects of this (side effects, withdrawal symptoms, need for more “medication” because either etc.) called a symptom or symptoms of a supposed biological disease that there is no real proof of WHILE the “treatment” HAS been proven to CAUSE biological disease, cause chemical imbalance, is in correlation and collusion with the current spike in the problem prevalent in this society…. that someone can be called unmedicated when they show signs of what the medication has done, and have this effect called a disease, this is then “unmedicated,” and to behave oneself is to ignore all of this, which somehow is supposed to be possible for those being “treated,” there seems to be something else going on…..
Who isn’t behaving themselves?
Then in answer to this: “SoâŚwhat in the world am I & hundreds of other family members to do? If they canât behave, donât want treatment, donât want to get better, unable to see they need help, you come up with a safer, better plan.”
This remark, I think I can assume, was in reference to the person being treated, not that the family member needed treatment, and wasn’t behaving themselves while demanding and implementing treatment that statistically correlates with more of the problem.
One might ask how much time was actually spent listening to anything but the fact that “they can’t behave” because the treatment they are forced on doesn’t correlate with recovery, which would then be called behaving if they behaved in a way as if the treatment not correlating with recovery does when it doesn’t, or “don’t want treatment,” again, they are not behaving when they don’t want treatment that doesn’t correlate statistically with recovery, or “donât want to get better” again, the same getting better is behaving oneself to want and take treatment that statistically hasn’t been shown to lessen the problem, nor scientifically can be proven to do what it is said to do (it causes chemical imbalance rather than treating one) and then: “unable to see they need help” again they are unable to see that what hasn’t helped them, what statistically doesn’t correlate with a lessening of the problem and what scientifically isn’t sound that this is the help they need……. And then: “you come up with a safer, better plan” this site is full of stories of people who have found healing, and recovery, but no: again they aren’t promoting what hasn’t. All of this despite the complete out of balance in investments would one look at what the cost is of what works compared with what doesn’t, or the amount of coercion (possibly violent) necessary, or the amount of alarmist behavior, or the amount of lies perpetrated, as in we know we are causing a chemical imbalance but way we are treating one etc…….
The one “non reality based” example actually depicts this: “the police are called due to either her calling them to make a complaint (no groundsâdead body in the garbage)” throwing out any reference to a method not mainstream that correlates with more recovery, but correlates with the spike in the problem along with the loss of life, this is like throwing out a dead body in the garbage. What works is discarded, denied, disqualified, thrown out with the garbage, and the loss of life because of this end up with the garbage…..
All the cherry picking of showing the minority of examples where it seems to work, or is made out to be what would, this doesn’t change the basic science nor statistics, nor does it excuse the consequent lives lost for these few “cherries.”…..
It also really becomes something when people who have shown to not be able to solve the problem become policing authorities in what will solve the problem……
I quickly read through this, a lot of the language being standard for what might even call scientism. The whole political plethora of how the “disease” is labeled as being “biological,” not a word that this doesn’t hold water, or everything else that’s leaking. This for example: “Many felt manipulated or threatened into taking medication, fearing consequences if they refused.” replace “medications” with substances-not-proven-statistically-or-scientifically-to-correlate-with-recovery-only-short-term-suppression-of-symptoms-in-a-marginal-fashion-often-where-upon-statistically-there-is-more-relapsing-as-well-as-the-so-called-medications-causing-scientifically-proven-chemical-imbalance-while-said-to-be-treating-them and this opens up too much of the truth apparently.
But yeah, make such a report and it works within the system….. Don’t actually list the overriding causes….
At first, upon going over this report, I noticed there’s no mention of what happens before a person might end up in an asylum. The degree that logical, normal or natural responses to a situation that isn’t acknowledged are going on. How a person by that point has met with umpteen roadblocks, whether at home, at work, at church, at school, in the neighborhood, regarding what one reads in the news etc. And mostly only gets points for seeing this otherwise understandable response that might bring perspective as a disease one is to be phobic about and might have started to believe it, further losing one’s way…..
I remember that it was reported by the WHO that in “developing” countries where there wasn’t money for “medications,” despite that patients were treated possibly quite brutally, there was less relapsing. What does this say about making this “treatment” more “nice” while ignoring AGAIN what it seems to mostly ignore!?
Annie, I do understand having been or being a teacher how your can’t say certain things, as little as a politician could even suggest that the pentagon spend even 1/4th of its budge[t] feeding those itâs set to bomb, despite protest from those believing in “the bombs bursting in the air.” This would suggest you considering what is more important. Then there’s this rather peculiar statement you make: “Suicide prevention training as a teacher does NOT prepare you for your own child telling you this. Iâve helped dozens of my students through tough times and suicidal thoughts. Listen to them. Talk to them. Hug them. Contact their parents. Check in on them.” Well…. It would be interesting to advertise a suicide prevention training, but have it state: “this method doesn’t work for your own children…” What does it in reality say about the training!? WHY wouldn’t it work for anyone’s children? Where does suicide prevention start then? Suicide prevention doesn’t involve teaching parents how to do this? Or should it say: âdonât try this at home!?â
SERIOUSLY!
Itâs also clear your son would have been around this process you say doesnât prepare you, and then the ax falls, so to speak, or not to speak but to type. Whatâs the difference when it hits home? And what does this say about following instructions, in contrast to the human condition, and how easily we are programmed to feel good when we follow set âinstructions.â
That bond that was there unspoken, as far as we know in your story above, until your son was in the process of being imprisoned where you yourself say he doesn’t belong, that bond hasn’t gone away. The challenge wouldn’t be there to open up the bond, otherwise. Even from the other side, there is stuff regarding my own parents that perhaps remained unspoken that I recently realized isn’t over with, have they both beautifully passed on. To sound completely crazy, I realized this listening to someone play violin, who I spoke with about HIS supposed suicide, before he reincarnated. Obviously he was in spirit. Then. He had been discovered and was forced to, or he would be exposed, and all the music he had written then, already, might have been compromised. Russia now again suppresses this information, when the world isn’t so…………..
Crazy as it might sound, I’m simply stating this, as being related to knowing that bond doesn’t go away. Itâs âspiritual,â itâs perhaps what life is about. And then there’s nothing said regarding why his father left, which says there’s something missing there. Why would anyone leave his own child, a new life, a blessing from, to use an overly interpreted word: “Heaven!?” Why would someone do that, what caused him to on the inside and the outside…..? Impossible things to try to understand, for a child…..
I recently have been working on cadenzas for Mozart concertos. Mozart as a child already thought that such virtuosity (aka “showing off” in a cadenza) expressed the impossible: miracles. One particular concerto, I had touched upon, when someone mentioned how Mozart tried to get some financial help from a certain noble family; simply reading someone bring this up on a blog, I began crying, and saw Mozart walking past what one can still see is a large body of water by this castle ( I had to look it up to see if it really was there), and experienced Mozart having the association of throwing himself into the water to drown. It’s not like none of us haven’t heard of such being a reaction, a response to life’s difficulties. There seriously was no plan to do such, a simple association. But I heard the beginning of this concerto, such. The concerto was written, before this, it seems. Where was this from, from Mozart being so irascible he left the place he was supposed to be another aristocratâs puppet, and then how does one get away from all of it!? Just an association, a momentary blip. And after the concerto being completed, so quickly that there was no rehearsal for the last movement, and Mozartâs father was there to hear it, after this there’s the role of the Contesse in the Marriage of Figaro, where her first aria is her expressing that SHE is suicidal. I had forgotten about this, and then someone recorded this concerto, and looking into the manuscript, practicing and studying it, I started writing a cadenza; when a run, I saw could do things that then might be considered inappropriate, but still fit within the expression. And the last movement gets really crazy to release the energy, in the cadenza I had quite a few variations of this theme, already, and then another was there, up in a cloud, and would have remained in a nebula, because I thought it was too much, but then I came upon an angel amongst us (later realizing who it was, who was considered the master of variation), who said just one word having to do with what was there for Mozart to give him the space for such that otherwise would be called “silly” what his father did, and then I did open the door for this variation, andâŚ.. it did drive me crazy, put me in a vulnerable state that might be called psychotic, or “schizo-effective,” but it worked. I learned to understand such a state better, the whole phenomenon. What really is non violent disinhibition….. It’s quite remarkable how paranoid and alarmist people respond, and get whole communities, and societies involved, in reality causing an extreme riff between THEM and their own humanity.
I would think it seems impossible for a child to understand why his father left him, but that bond to try to express this hasn’t gone away. All of the arts are there also. Perhaps, in writing down how he feels, your son could write a poem. Or just, in the beginning why he felt that way, I would think that thereâs more to such a note as simply trying to express how he feels with those bleak words. Unfortunately, that seems to also happen with suicide prevention, in general. You can read several stories here on this site, what suicide prevention lines really do, and how they often can make things worse. What does this say about a society that even given this response, this association with how one would respond, that thereâs lacking perspective as to WHY anyone would take such a road, instead itâs made out to be a disease.
No one is supposed to feel this way.
Nothing is wrong.
How could this happen, this is just impossible⌠rather than seeing someone is trying to express something, and giving that some legroom will allow them to see thereâs an outlet. Miracles do happen beyond what anyone has been brainwashed to believe is the limit,
When someone thinks life is impossible it there something wrong with pointing out that it isnât, or are they supposed to accept limitations their soul was already trying to reach beyond in order to grow?
Maybe Iâm âluckyâ early on when this all started, and stuff I knew that could be called psychic wasnât accepted by my parents, although all they had to do is ask the neighbor lady. Stuff I needed to talk about. Then I got diagnosed, but I ran into a real healer. Not a psychic, not a new age person, not a spiritualist, but a real healer, where it just happened. A Filipino man, times prism is also amazing, how such comes together, not the first time, stuff regarding other âtimesâ I had forgotten, actually, seeing the amazing poetry now, but after seeing him, and the impossible happen, as happen with the real Filipino healers, because it does, and forever exists, I realized 20 years had been added to my life, the amount of time thatâs statistically taken away from someone with my âconditionâ when âmedicationsâ are implimentedâŚâŚ
Instead I learned miracles exist, and thatâs the natural state of art, actually. Beyond being âentertainingâ and âdeadlinesâŚ..â
It’s possible. Have a talk with your son, or give him a piece of paper and writing utensil, now a days a computer also can work…….
Would anyone read this article whether it’s making an excuse for doing “SOMETHING” regarding a situation that seems critical, one can hardly say that the word “abusive” is used incorrectly to describe even here, would one read how this “resort” is described. You can go on about the state of resources available, and this article bringing value and perspective, but this doesn’t change the statistics that in reality it’s exactly such resources in the state of the present mental health system that correlates and is in collusion with causing MORE suicides. More of the problem, more need to enforce what says it’s healing the problem while being in correlation and collusion (statistically and scientifically) with causing it. The more of the problem, and you can chastise anyone not being brainwashed to be “heroic” and ignore what’s really going on. Bringing up anecdotal information regarding an acquaintance and their loss doesn’t change such data either. It might even really only show bias, as in this system given perspective causes more of the problem, but I know someone who lost their child, and it might have helped. So goes getting points for advocating mainstream approach what’s “available,” what’s considered a “resource,” what’s a promoted “route,” what’s considered to be of “value,” and deny the results in the end, but get rewards from who is giving them for taking their “route,” with “value, available resources.” And then use the word perspective to again in reality deny perspective. Perspective doesn’t involve actual perspective, you have to separate result and method and add the method that doesn’t get results or exposing what that really does is lack of it [perspective]. Same as the rest: say there are resources available, when in reality the resources that don’t correlate with more of the problem are not really promoted, and then bring up anecdotal grievances again. No one here is promoting anyone losing a loved one, or suicide, nor are they negating your lose, we are sharing statistics. It’s also quite mean-spirited, to use such a loss to deny statistical and medical reality, to let alone the words snarky and tacky from use. Denying that an abusive situation that in reality correlates with causing more of the problem is supposed to be excused by what!? I understand you know how to use the words “perspective,” “resources,” “route,” “meanspirited,” “tacky,” “snarky” the same as coloring an article as something normal one does peppering it with descriptions as if it’s a travelogue along with descriptions of some of the undesirable inhabitants working there, an article where in the end the author says she knows he doesn’t belong……..
I HAVE TO DO THIS BUT I KNOW HE DOESN’T BELONG THERE!
And then somehow, the mother of the author responding with: âI know how hard this is for you. I went through it with Ashley. It just sucks.â ” to me points out again anecdotal input, as if this is just how it goes, regardless of perspective with statistical cause and effect. Or whether other methods are being promoted. Who is Ashley, also, what’s her story?
Note: I’m not really writing this as a response, it’s more for the other people reading this who have had it, and when simply responding with what’s left in them to respond, they get labeled as such, because they aren’t ameliorating or apologizing for what they have EXPERIENCED as being highly traumatizing. And it’s them actually that are given no chance to process or share their heaviest chapters. As in: “Don’t actually point out extreme contradictions, because then if your heaviest chapters involve trauma from such lies as: “the place that will help you makes things worse statistically, so we need to treat you more rather than see what we’re doing, while the savior is profiting from this?'” don’t actually point this out or you’re snarky, meanspirited, lacking perspective and value, and……….. oh yeah, DO bring up “unconditional love,” when such abusive contradictions are ignored….
(!?) I hate to point this out, but when someone had lost their father when he was four, since then felt: “Then he opened up about his dad leaving him when he was four years old. He felt untrusting and unworthy. He felt like he didnât matter. He felt sad all the time. He felt like he wanted to die.” and never had the outlet to talk with his mother about this, this story told is advertised as what!? “This essay is a sincere reminder of how important it is to be an active listener and open communicator, offering a place of refuge and a voice expressing unconditional love and support. Timelier than ever.” Somehow, I think some opening for communication was missing, and as time goes…… what it too late when it finally came out!?
Note number 2: Again I’m not really writing this as a response, it’s more for the other people who have been accused such, when they simply respond themselves with what they have left, as if after everything they have been through they can’t express their trauma, but have to act like “politicians” or advertising agents with euphemisms and platitudes enough to go with such superficiality, image and “heroic morals.”
It really easy to turn words around like that, because such and such is supposed to be seen that way….. But what is one describing? I wouldn’t even necessarily want to call that magic……
Might be more like partisan business practices or politics…. and then “faithfulness.” or “religion” of such…..
Sorry, in my rather long post, what I basically was trying to say is that if society was truly interested in understanding trauma, and how it effects people, they would see the signs to stop so much that comes because of trauma. All of the crimes, the sociopaths, the wasting of nature, all of that, and with “mental illness” it’s just this zone where you either acknowledge it or not. Deny how trauma effects people, and a society doesn’t see how it would stop everything else, only tries to treat it with more trauma. And “mentally ill” people aren’t the ones causing all the wars, we’re not the criminals, we’re not the sociopaths running the banks and the militaries, the penal systems and even the churches and schools, no. We’re just these people that can’t fit into all of that and…… we might be trying to point something out to society that if they paid attention, just simply to understand trauma and how it affects people rather than thinking it’s a necessary form of “discipline”……
Dear Ekaterina, there are so many sad sad stories. And it’s society’s great loss not to listen. It would change all of society would society care about trauma, and how one transcends it. All the symptoms labeled as disease to me are something akin to telling someone when they have a limp that there is something genetically wrong with their leg, to prevent actually seeing that maybe they are overworked or so. And then the loss is the human condition, and all the creative, amazingly natural evolutionary responses to finding another way than forcing people to work till they have a limp. And it’s a loss to the people who manipulate the whole system to label a natural response thus, THEY have lost their humanity, and they won’t find it in whatever they think they’ve gained….. Eventually they will find themselves, but in the meantime it’s our task not to invest in using trauma as a means to punish people to control their behavior so that the system can control them.
I think you’ve encountered it yourself that as soon as you have been labeled as being mentally ill, you can’t do an array things that for others are normal without people suddenly being concerned, all because at one point you weren’t frightened into being controlled by statistical based norms, peer pressure, consensual reality deportment, the status quo , the fashion of whatever group everyone inside it has compromised themselves to… etc. etc. And so you are targeted that you might actually break free. Are showing signs of dissent, and the even worse fear that your dissent might be subconsciously expressed through sadness, your own inner world depicting the trauma that you might gain perspective and transcend it etc. that’s even worse because it might change your conscious thinking and you’ll be less programmable, less vulnerable to their brainwashing. You might actually gain access to a world that exists for you despite you’re not controlled by obeying said rules or you’ll be traumatized into it, and that world really…..it might show they’re not really, not really in such an amazing society as they think. They very stuff the oppress and are so paranoid about might actually not be what they think. And then comes all of the alarmist behavior, that their oppression is for your own good, and them they feel safe when they don’t look at what they are so alarmed about to see it’s really nothing, or might actually be a completely different understanding leading to perspective on what it is to be human rather than something programmed to follow said…..
It remains amazing to me how human being because they have cognitive faculties that you can tell them something that at a mental level has all the elements that it’s valid and true, but it’s only a facade. It’s only there to be repeated as excuse as to why said process is true and is working, and so no one looks anymore at the real result, or cherry picks, as it’s called, no insult to cherries, I just had something, they are amazing. But God forbid anyone will dissent from said indoctrination, or worse do something that deviates it from a way that when left alone might expose that perhaps it’s not what people have been brainwashed to believe it is despite all their efforts to enforce without looking at the result…… A Course in Miracles says that when someone is talking from their ego to not respond and argue with them, because then you are coming from your own….. Perhaps just peacefully doing your own thing shows there’s another way……
Dear Ekaterina, you don’t have to have been in an asylum to have a whole……. a whole population of people you miss. You just have to have been there and talk to, get to know, listen to, and have taken people into your lives that are so human they don’t fit into the machinery using them for a “society.” And yes, they so many get labeled as being mentally ill.
Just one person here: https://www.lifestorynet.com/obituaries/lisbeth-lilly-lipke.29513#memories She was a friend for years. I watched her get committed at the end, after we had had a conversation before this, where she very quietly explained her prior suicide attempts, and how depressed she would get after having been in the asylum. I don’t even know what kind of adjective or adverb to give the process of her being committed. Everyone lied, no one even followed real rules. She simply was acting out a bit, but I could get along with her. She had gone out with some “friends” the morning before, but ended up being with me on her front yard, where she was making up poetry, my long hair being similar, akin or as the vines growing on her side fence. Since I have one side of my backyard covered with grape vines, maybe that’s her. She was being playful, and had some M and M’s ( a candy ) that she had put into a container (a wine glass), calling them Jesus blood (or his body, I don’t remember, probably his body). Which is interesting to me because I had had a funny dream years ago where I traded with my [Dutch] cousins some M and M’s without peanuts for those with peanuts, like I was conning them into it because with peanuts seemed more illustrious or high class, but that all the M and M’s in the dream (which they CAN do in a dream) hatched into chickens I would have more. Years before this, I had been wanting to go to the beach, and thought about calling Lilly up, which was only thought, or actually more than the limitations that are supposed to exist and WAS thought. Lilly then called me up bringing up that we would go to the beach, although the limitations imposed on us would say that I would have had to physically bring this up. But no, they were my own thoughts, not something anybody else programmed me with that then could have come out of my mouth like a computer being used for whatever, no! they were my own thoughts, and she responded to them. Sadly, she responded rather tragically, because having been tortured and tortured, and intimidated, and abused, and insulted, and discriminated against in the mental health system this wouldn’t fit into their idea of normalcy, of statistical based norms of consensual reality deportment necessary for them to leave her alone as “sane.” Just because she was in reality where thought is real, despite itâs supposed to be something else, so limited it couldnât exist. She âreadâ my mind, one would say, but that seems a bit bleak, as if itâs some test. I did ask Lilly, after her “suicide” what it was like in Heaven, and she said the good stuff remains, it’s not flushed down the whatever, but grows. That’s more real, I would believe, then anything we think is loss, be it physical or whatever. There had been a local medium that had seen a flyer regarding Lilly after her suicide, and the medium had written some message from Lilly on a piece of paper, this was given to another lady who I happened to be talking to on the phone (she was involved with being pastor to a church that actually kicked her out for not following their rigid rules), and this lady “happened” to put her hand on this piece of paper while talking, and read it to me. It basically said that no, committing suicide didn’t end Lilly’s depression, that it was what was described as a “deadset” state. I think that means that you fail to see everything in life that is there beyond what is making you feel it isn’t there. But it was later, when I asked her her what Heaven was like, and she told me that the good things remain and grow, that they aren’t loss. Because I was involved with someone who had a famous near death experience, so I decided to ask Lilly. It all was so much of a shock to me, when she had committed suicide, also given how I watched it happen, which I haven’t shared yet other than everyone lied, I notice. All she really did was not be intimidated by these “friends” who then wouldn’t leave us alone to simply be together, first invited me over with her for tea and some cake, not because they wanted to interact with us, they wanted to confront her, to coerce her into treatment. So, after lying to us, and we had gone across the street, I was asked to let them be with Lilly, and I said: “No, that’s funny, I’m not going to do that,” and left. Because I wasn’t going to condone their idea that she needed whatever they were trying to push on her. Didn’t take long and she came bounding across the street, scared out of her wits, because they had threatened her, she KNEW what happens in those places, she tried to get away on my bike which was locked and slammed down on a pedal that wouldn’t move so hard she broke her Achilles tendon. She then took flight, and a sort of chase scene ensued. The couldn’t find her, she had found another friend to help her for awhile, they broke into her house called her case manager, after it was made clear Lilly didn’t want them in her house. I had called there telling them to get out of Lilly’s house or I’d called the police, from a lady who since has continued to be extremely nasty, I got a sarcastic reply of: “Oh.. would you,” where upon I knew they’d lay a whole schpiel on the police. And indeed, afterwards, after NOT calling the police, I passed by her house while the police were there, and her “friends” and they were in the process of committing her. As I came by she pointed me out to the police, and said I was really nice, then all I did was stop, and maybe didn’t even say anything, and a policeman told me to move on or I’d be arrested. I asked him for what I would be arrested, and he said for interfering with an investigation. I went home, and called police non emergency, told them how these “friends” had trespassed into her house, and the non emergency police actually told me stuff she supposedly had done that she hadn’t, as if that was reason to have her committed. I found this just about always happens, as well, things are exaggerated, and if that’s enough stuff is brought out that whoever thinks might have happened as if it did. When it hadn’t, wouldn’t, isn’t……. They said she had been taking her clothes off, which is the FIRST thing a “friend” said she was doing, when she had fled them, which she hadn’t done at all. Then they told the police something she hadnât done, and then the police are reporting this from the non emergency number as if they are reading the tabloids. By now, in the intercourse or trying to remember and put into words on a screen everything, I end up being quite overloaded. I should ADD that after breaking her achilles tendon, the asylum never attended to a true physical condition. Her leg was swollen up to the knee, the tendon would have had to have been directly attended to, before it was too late, but no, all they did in a âmedical establishmentâ was dope her up with disabling agents. He foot was ruined, she got out by, as she said, being able to make them think she was OK (I think one doesnât want them to know if you arenât, they only make things worse), and then she ended up being committed again, this time there were reactions to the drugs she was one that werenât acknowledged, by then she had been raped, and instead a nun that was always there in that particular hospital as a representative of such a system accused her of being âtoo provocativeâ as well as denying the affect the drugs were having on her when because of them she couldnât hold her urine. Then she got, and within a few months had committed suicide. I had warned all of her friends, and her mother, that I thought if they had her committed again they would lose her, and then despite my warning to most of her âfriendsâ I remained the bad guy.
In the chase scene going on, where I was trying to find her when she had fled, I happened to slow down at one point, because I felt the need, I then ran into another friend out of nowhere, someone who since then I ALSO have lost thanks to you know what system, and while standing there talking to her, Djokovic happened to come by in a truck [I think] and being sensitive enough to have some notion of what was going on, and seeing me, pulled an expression on his face that I have only seen in two others, and called âTHAT DISTURBED LOOK.â At first it was just a joke, the mental health system sure makes people look disturbed, but this regards just something someone might see who is sensitive. Who did I see have âthat disturbed look?â Two others, who I think were responsible for creating Schumannâs Kreisleriana (One being Schumann the other Hoffman who wrote the story Kater Murr that the character Kreisler came from). And then Djokovic had the same lookâŚ.. So again, itâs not really funny, although one can only try to engage with it using humour, everything has become so⌅ later, a week, maybe less, possibly more, he came by again in the same truck, and I stated, crying out, : âTheyâre trying to put Lilly in the asylum again,â and he says: âIâm in loveâŚâŚ..â Since then, I also donât know whether I have run into Lilly, after being pronounced dead, as an angel among us, albeit the whole scenario being akin to a dream state where things are symbolic or at least beyond the trapping of how things are labeled as being considered âobjectiveâ enough that such can happen,whether itâs just me seeing something more in what happened and itâs just an association (Iâm told to make a quip about this being a âsymptomâ I suppose of âpsychosisâ), or she actually did materialize from the wave patterns of a dream in spirit, and thus could materialize into the physical from the wave patterns of physical matter, as one sees in the double slit experiment when the wave patterns are observed, with quantum physics, the uncertainty principle allowing for this. If we can dream and step into their world, perhaps they can dream and appear in ours. All of this BEYOND what most academic settings would say is possible, although someone like Tesla might completely disagree, and have example and technology that does say it is.
Ekaterina, it gets crazier, I had for quite awhile thought Lilly was Piccini, the composer. Opera. And I wonât say exactly which opera singer I ran into at church, because she was with a violin player I also wonât mention. I wonât mention it because they are famous enough one doesnât, and it was their personal life. But this singer then is actually bringing to life characters, like the one Piccini [another branch of Lillyâs soul, possibly] put on paper to be brought to lifeâŚâŚâŚ And I ended up talking to this singer, having heard her singing just the night before online on youtube, and never had heard anything like this. I think she was in the hotel here, and we walked together that direction (towards the hotel) after standing outside the church with another person (that it seems Lilly knew), and she went to I think to the hotel, while I went to the museum. During this walk I acted out stuff also. This AGAIN is too much to get into, involving Antonio Stradivari and his son âGiovanni,â Giovanni being a character in another opera, and âGiovanniâ perhaps having reincarnated to be Maxwell Clark who also found out stuff that Tesla, and the dream state would understand beyond mainstream indoctrination (academics). Giovanni actually around again, a new part of his soul, possibly, and I had made a story up about him being Stradivariâs son. Having hauled all of this out. Then. One day, a girl appeared out of nowhere as I was going into the library, stating she was the girl at church. I had a whole conversation with her. But, if I am ârationalâ about this, this is impossible, because they are different heights. And every time I consider it, the one is the height of Lilly, completely the same everything, just about, and the other is the height of the singer, which is about a foot or so less. Was Lilly transcending time and weaving a line in dreamtime that transcends loss, bringing in what a character thatâs called fictional can be? SERIOUSLY! I have two memories, this singer, who is then fitting her height, talking with her a little, walking towards the museum with her, she, I think going to the hotel (and not wanting to go to the museum), and me going to the museum, after playing a jive with Giovanni that I wonât go into. And then thereâs this girl appearing out of nowhere, completely looking like Lilly, having a whole conversation with her as âthe girl at the church,â and then her apologizing that she didnât go to the museum with me. This happens all the time in opera, by the way, a change of character to make the plot gel.
I could go on about it, people still in âthe communityâ that would say they care about Lilly, but you canât mention any of this really, or they might say, for example, as one said: âyou wrote me off,â as if Iâm was supposed to keep some investment in what wouldnât, wasnât, and isnât helping, and thus, they feel they are doing their duty because all of what happened to show me about the Universe, and that I need to grow, they can dismiss, and get a âbadgeâ for itâŚ..
And now, having written all of above, I actually skipped something, something that would make me out to be completely crazy.
This friend of mine, the one that would have been Hoffman, of the disturbed look, and Kreisleriana, she had called me that Lilly had committed suicide. I responded with: âsheâs not dead, sheâs just out of the mental health system,â and then when the phone wasnât in my ear anymore, having put it down (I didnât even have a cell phone at that time yet), I took what I would call a magic wand I had made, waved it in the air, and then Lilly appeared in a holographic image. She asked me how I had done that, and I simply demurred with a dimple doing the speaking beyond words and that was that. She was happy, though. There is even a healer who would heal using a holographic image, a healer called the dream healer. Adam McCleod. I of course was playing around with Harry Potter âfiction.â I donât then actually completely agree with Rowling though, what she calls a horcrux is a connection between people where healing can take place, itâs called forgiveness. Whatâs missing in the one the other might be able to give, and where it comes from, whatâs given, there no loss to give from, no debt, no guilt, just what was there the whole time waiting beyond the worldâs way of âfixingâ things can emergeâŚâŚ
Actually Ekaterina, now I remember, it wasnât the same person, and no, there wasnât my friend that popped out of Heaven, so exactly. There were two visits to that church, two weeks in succession, and the first week was the opera singer, but then the next week was a different girl, only she was with the same guy I had stood outside the church and talked with the singer. I had somehow convoluted those two, and put my friend, who Iâd lost, up to popping in from Heaven, involving her âpriorâ incarnation and standard opera devices of people going in disguise as each other. Since according to me she had written such, it seems. Such goes the mind thanks to you know what, and loss. Thereâs no loss though, in the end. It did take me quite a part of the day, which I before had actually figured out, but the story that came out of it, half fiction, just was too strong to dismiss. I think art actually is the strongest spiritual energy, beyond fundamental religion. So no, my friend didnât pop in out of Heaven, unless it was via two other people, the one looking too much like her to dismiss as not being some sort of doppelganger, but a good one bringing the threads of a story together, so I donât miss what would otherwise have been lost.
Thatâs just one person, actually, that I missâŚ..
Another girl. Cheryl, when I was going to a Junior College, and she was in the choir with me, she used to call me up. She would tell me how her sister was in the French resistance, and was scared for her. I just listened. I donât even remember whether I ever said this might be from a past lifetime, and then thereâs the emotional side of it, what was she resisting ( the sister), if that what was going on. But yeah, sheâd call me, and Iâd just listen. She was OK, she took care of herself, basically, but then some âsocial workersâ came along to check her out. For whatever reason her refrigerator wasnât full, although she was taking care of herself, eating regularly, it just was her refrigerator was empty. There are enough people that perhaps are homeless, have no refrigerator, I donât know what Cherylâs financial situation was, whether she went to the local soup kitchen, instead, whether she was trying to lose weight, butâŚâŚâŚ Yes, as you already guessed, they committed her, I saw her once years, years ago on the bus, she looked all puffed up from the psychiatric drugs, her movements were like she was trying to get out of a big ball imploding around her preventing her from moving, something by then she was used to, since thatâs the way it goes, Iâm sure, her eyes also quite popping out of her head from it. She still had given up though, there was still a glint of being naughty or mischievousness or curiosity beyond the norm that she wasnât going to dismiss in her eyes. I heard about the social workers from a friend of mine, who somehow had heard this, and there were many such stories, sadly this friend of mine sometimes going on the side of the mental health system, when it wasnât helping her or the others.
Another lady, who thankfully escaped the system, despite the social workers, but was extremely abused. She came from Ukraine, this being years ago (a couple of decades) had been promised a job, papers should have been taken care of, none of that happened, and she was left having to deal with this and two children. As would be with many parents taking care of their children rather than whether their house fits a magazine layout of being well-kept, it was messy. Some social workers get involved, and suggest antidepressants, and this lady, having had a mother that was a nurse and new these drugs can have such an undesirable affect, she said no, and told the about what she knew. These social workers took away her children, exaggerated everything, I heard it was in the papers how messy her house was, hearing this from someone that REALLY should have known better to believe it. I talked with this woman numerous times on the bus, and everything was fine. She never showed any signs of being anything but a good mother. Eventually she found a man here she married, and then went back to Ukraine, although given recent trends had to leave there. I heard this from her husband, but havenât seen him since, although he was on the bus often. Iâve encountered enough from these social workers to know how that all goes, which is too much to mention here. Excuse me let me write an encyclopedia about it, that might hold a fraction of whatâs going on⌅
There was a guy that helped at a mission where they had a group for people to come together and share stuff they wrote. A writerâs circle. He, in high school, was the class president, and when he was to give a speech at graduation, he told them the truth regarding formal education. They then turned off the microphone WHILE he was talking. Apparently it was THAT dangerous for them would anyone start to question the veritable truth of what was brought forth in their noble institution. He became a really good writer, wrote for the local paper, had a book he was going to write, had a literary agent as well, and was working on that, but that fell through. He told me he was having problems with alcohol, and this editor had suggested something he didnât like and he responded quite bluntly, perhaps with a swear word. Again, given anyone trying to dress up for commercial use and mainstream whatever he already had experienced, I canât but see he was right, but they dropped him. I donât know if I would know how to react or respond when an editor for a mainstream outlet would suggest something that to me to go along with so many of what I discover is offered at say Barnes and Noble as modern literature, and how paint by number it so often is. In the meantime, he had had a suicide attempt, actually told us he was really mad when he woke up and wasnât dead. Iâm sure this also was after having been committed, and experiencing the oppression there. Then I heard he also had committed suicide. Someone ran into him in the kind of state she called âpsychoticâ because she couldnât relate to him, and then it was reported he had committed suicide.
I could go on about others, those stuck in the system, not being able to free themselves, or even being able to bypass the barb wired fence of fear keeping them imprisoned every time they try to engage with what would help them beyond what they are allowed to entertain. How is anyone to acquire the matrix of understanding to work with answers one isnât allowed to even entertain?
Some do get out, like your friend Sam seems to haveâŚâŚâŚ.
This is indeed hair raising, especially for those who have been through such. And THANK GOD that when one does a search for something like âputting someone in an asylum increases the chance of suicideâ you get the following hit: https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/06/involuntary-hospitalization-increases-risk-suicide-study-finds/ which was the second time I did such a search after reading this blog, the first on a tablet where writing a response is difficult, the first time with a similar statement the hit came in the first five I think, the second was further down the page with number 8.
With the stringent effort put into portrayal of concern and then horror, is one allowed to be objective, or is this seen as cruel to point out that look here, according to statistics shared here you could be making the matter worse. Or is this then again labeled as being insensitive, in blocking something being done, in not showing concern etc?
I think I have the same reactions as MANY of the people attending this site that my heart race increases, I myself start feeling anxious, I wonder whether I can say anything given the experience Iâve had with the mental health system, given the data I know, given the people Iâve talked to, and given the way most people respond when you share any of this.
Yes, this article is peppered with many descriptive notes, what the asylum looked like, the couches, the people there, the nurses responses, the grandmother going to get food while waiting for intake, the horror of experiencing whatâs going on, the contradictions etc. etc. all very well fulfilling how one writes a blog creating a scenario, most English teachers won’t say that it lacks that, but in the midst of it all we read: âThen he opened up about his dad leaving him when he was four years old. He felt untrusting and unworthy. He felt like he didnât matter. He felt sad all the time. He felt like he wanted to die. He didnât have a plan. Yet.â Which only happens after the child has been made ward of the asylum. After the child has begged not to be put there, promising not to hurt himself.
Suicidal thoughts are suicidal thoughts, and like any other feelings, you try to push them away, this misses why they are there, and at that point they are just feelings. Feelings expressed however they can at that moment. Feelings have an intelligence that the conscious mind with all of its attempt at finding the answers might never reach. Dowsing them with disabling drugs what is this going to do, and what does it do to those people who would have been able to give legroom to such feelings so natural intelligence emerges and they become feelings one was trying to express: simply because anyone could have them, given a situation, and then being allowed perhaps answers can emerge? Somehow âI feel suicidal and thatâs a dangerous disease so turn it off for Godâs sake, and thatâs going to take care of the feeling,â this just isnât working for me, as if simply given room for WHY this feeling is there is dangerous. And how is any solution to be found if the very reason one looks for a solution is made out to be a disease!?
I was going to go to the farmerâs market before I read this, one of the one places somehow I can feel at home, given the paranoia that can build up against anyone showing signs of what could be labeled as a psychiatric condition. People start acting like attack dogs but you can’t say it might have something to do with brainwashing. Something must be done, and looking at the true results is pushed to the side. Imagine knowing something is going on with you, and you want to find an answer, but you know or have experienced that most people have been brainwashed to believe that doing what has made the situation worse is what needs to be done. All that along with wanting to find an answer, when in reality you know thereâs this result of: âso and so just wonât do what heâs supposed to,â or âwonât behave the way he should. âAnd then when one gets anxious or infuriated which would be the normal response, this is again made out to beâŚâŚâŚ is this a further attempt at mind control? Overloading someone!?
Have I again not said or done what needs to be?
Do I again take on the visage of a reporter that reports or witnesses or describes something thatâs going to be censored, you know these reporters, the ones reporting stuff going on on the wrong side of some moral war⌅!?
Am I being disruptive, is there something wrong with me: this feeling of anxiety doesn’t just go flying away, given what I’ve seen, heard, read and experienced given what such a situation does in an asylum?
Will it all go away would I take a pill or be compliant with my belief system!??
I find that I go and meditate, rather than thinking I’m supposed to “do” something…..
After meditating for maybe 5 minutes, if even that, in the nick of time to add this before the edit option times out, I remember that when I was around 18 or 19, probably 18 and working really hard practicing piano and fitting into a college setting while staying at home, that when my parents left to go out, trying to make sense out of how I felt (it might have just been a bit of uneasiness I didn’t understand), I told them that I was scared I would commit suicide if they left me alone. They both have beautifully passed on (I’m 65 now), were both psychologists, my father teaching at a University, and I think my mother simply said that people my age often feel like that, and indeed I never had that feeling come back. I could go on about what was missing perhaps in expressing feelings, trying to work that out, the whole psychological scenario, but really it just went away. Thinking what my life would have been had they……………. I don’t even want to think about it, perhaps I might do it anyway, and my imagination regarding what would have happened MIGHT be more accurate than what anyone mostly can read in mainstream media as being the result…………
Absolutely no need to apologize. I had never even looked into Von Franz at all, only heard conversations by my parents, my father particularly, and the way he would go on about how her use of symbolism was so amazing (I remember some remark about Unicorns). How she uses this and then that, and brings this in, all explaining collective consciousness or the subconscious. As if this is where perspective in the inner mind comes from. Unicorns are part of stories, mythology, if not more than that, but to give them some concrete meaningâŚ.. Von Franz here goes on about all sorts of stuff here, that rather makes me laugh, as response. She goes on about someoneâs sexual fantasies, as if itâs any of her business to judge, and then decides whether he should still be living with his mother, making me wonder what kind of formula anyone would have to fit their life into before she dissects itâŚ.. I guess people get something out of being handed out high brow analysesâŚ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7kUpMOzEoA&t=234s Goes on about the four types of women Jung used, and whatâs wrong with the mother Mary image. Well, there you go, someone who has had a rather pious mother using an image of being so good to make another feel as if they have to also become such an ikon or thereâs something wrong with them, bring them to Von Franz, have her bring up mother Mary and the other three female potentials, and itâs all solved (Iâm being sarcastic). There we have Hollywood and image games, what this is supposed to have to do with the actual Mother Mary is beyond me, already. She goes on to such a degree with analyses, and meanings to things, I simply donât know what sheâs going on about after a while. Who knows what sheâs going on about. She goes on and on about Jesus, and then acts as if she knows what his struggle was. Mentions being torn, as if that was his purpose, if thatâs what sheâs saying at all. There is a book called A Course in miracles: interesting history: A woman started hearing a voice, a woman that was a militant atheist, highly competitive medical psychologist, but was having difficulty with a colleague, and then he I think had said: âthereâs got to be a better way,â and she (this psychologist) started hearing what she calls a voice, for lack of knowing how to describe it. And the voice started dictating this book, because otherwise she was annoyed by it. Theyâd lock each other up in a basement close the curtains and go over what had been dictated. All that so no one would see she had signs of going crazy. This psychologist. The book then identified its voice as being Jesus, and it was published by someone who had been told she would do such. âJesusâ himself says this there: âI elected, for your sake and mine, to demonstrate that the most outrageous assault, as judged by the ego, does not matter. 2 As the world judges these things, but not as God knows them, I was betrayed, abandoned, beaten, torn, and finally killed. 3 It was clear that this was only because of the projection of others onto me, since I had not harmed anyone and had healed many.â To read A Course in Miracles, it basically says you crucify yourself, rather than other are doing that. Itâs quite hard logic, I worked on that book for years and years, itâs not like I completely agree with Jesus at all, and thereâs the aspect that he himself was traumatized, and so such an escape was an escape rather than what itâs made out to be, even the people calling themselves Christians are denying they donât really except him, because look heâs this symbol, a badge you can use. He did this, he was resurrected, heâs the authority. As if heâs the only angel among us that ever appeared after death without all the drama. You can get out of a situation, and forgive that way also, that might be in ways more challenging, and in ways easier, both at the same time, but thatâs not what happened. I have memories from that time, seeing him on the donkey he entered Jerusalem on, and I thought: âoh GOD! Heâs not going to survive this.â He could have escaped the territory, in the end Lazarus had to, they were going to kill him as well, even says that in âthe bible.â But then thereâs the trauma regarding his family also, how he was supposed to be this great prophet, and other parts of him had been suppressed. In the Urantia Papers, it says that he wasnât allowed to draw in school anymore, as a child already, it had been reported and he was accused of idolatry, somehowe everything one drew had to be âGod,â so they could determine what it was, as if it wasnât everything or anything. His father had been accused of being a bad father, and then forbid his son to draw or even make little clay sculptures. They were in a Greek village and Jesus loved their playhouse, but then forget himself and told his father he wanted such in their village, and his father had a fit saying he didnât want to hear anything ever again about this Greek stuff. Nice father huh? Jesus also played harp, and sang, probably quite limited in what words he could use, but he did, and people would come around just to hear him sing. After his father had died, he was the eldest, had a little sister name Ruth who had friends that would play while in the courtyard, one would pull Jesus off the workbench and DEMAND a story. There it goes right? None of that is good enough, he has to be a great âprophet.â Canât just live life and see God in artâŚ.. Iâm quite on a tangent here, but itâs quite amazing that people go on about mental health and depression, and how it can lead to suicide, but here someone CHOSE their own end, and itâs heralded, whole Institutions that are tax exempt have come from it⌅And I read that there are more church buildings than hospitals worldwideâŚ.. And then thereâs the other side, what if Jesus actually was uprooted, that it wasnât just about this metaphysical display, that it actually hurt so much how he was treated, even his followers werenât allowed anything but to buy stuff, werenât allowed in the temple anymore, werenât allowed get-togethers, he was followed wherever he went, they constantly were trying to trap himâŚâŚ.Many people heralding how âChristianâ they are would do the same to Jesus now again. In fact a healer that helped me, as a child he was put in an asylum and given shock therapy because a Catholic Priest had said that when miracles happened around him, he had been given a special gift by the devil, and the devil wouldnât like the shock therapy and loosen his grip on the man. His story is here: https://youtu.be/g9edB02jWP0?si=q8EJlFI8J8eA-7sd&t=726
And Iâm getting distracted. I have a very long relationship with Jesus, and that spans at least 5000 years, and he by all means was not throughout history always the angel heâs made out to be, but thatâs how one learns. You make mistakes. Youâre programmed to act a certain way, something you thought wasnât important you throw away or worse, and voila, itâs not there anymore. But as soon as you learn to value it, see what you âlostâ there it is. There you have Platoâs cave allegory, whatâs from forever, couldnât be lost. Iâm supposed to be âschizo-effectiveâ but thus, sometime between July 27 (when we had my fatherâs funeral https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmpJ2EDfh7s ) and September 27, while I was in âan episode,â along with quite a few other things, I stepped right into the other dimension, and there actually was Jesus, and we had a little interaction, which Iâm now, from this âdistractionâ getting back into, thereâs stuff we were both working on regarding what I canât get into here, and he could move on, as well. What the difference is, would be, isnât, doesnât metter between âschizophreniaâ where thereâs no difference between inner and outer awareness, when in reality inner is more real than outer, to begin withâŚâŚ.and then entering a dimension that touches upon foreverâŚâŚ.
The Urantia papers clears quite a lot up. As does a Course in Miracles. No, Jesus never said he came to bring a sword. He also never walked on water, that was Peter dreaming he saw this, and while yet dreaming stepped out of a boat into the water and had to be rescued. There were miracles abundant, though. He was conduit for a boy with emotional problems to be healed, the boy would be fine, and then go to the caves and howl for awhile, then come to himself again. Jesus was conduit to heal him, but at the same time there was a dog that barked, and consequently some sheep jumped over a cliff, and the sheep herders instead acknowledging the miracle blamed this on Jesus, and didnât want him around, as if he had anything to do with what could have happened if he was there or not.
ANYHOW!
Sheâs perfectly correct, in the other video that wars uproot people, and this is tragic, traumatizing, turns their life upside down, robs them of any feeling of safety, which only more makes me wonder why she goes on about âcommunityâ as being the source of comfort, when someone who would go to a psychologist, say for help with whatâs called a mental health problem, they would have probably experienced EXACTLY how the âcommunityâ might be the problem. Probably in the community, and probably at home, BOTH. They probably were uprooted by the community already, and the family, didnât feel at home, had no place to go. And thenâŚ. Itâs exactly to me, how a community doesnât have room for such people that typifies the environment ignoring trauma, and then also using it as if this is discipline, itâs THAT environment that breeds the sociopaths that end up stirring up wars, waging them, profiting off of them. Itâs the community that puts out such âdisciplineâ is necessary, and finds a need to train people to suppress their compassion and empathy for others, in order to implement such âDiscipline.â Iâve read Against Therapy
by Mousaieffe and it explains so much regarding what Von Franz is going on about. What does it say about someone who when confronted by women who had been sexually abused, or suppressed by the patriarchical society, what does it say that in order to hide this trauma and stay politically correct, he starts making up something as obscene and ridiculous as âpenis envyâ for women. I have to laugh and itâs not even funny. Jung then thought women should be housewives, he was quite racist regarding brown skinned peopleâŚâŚ..
Iâm quite complaining about stuff. Itâs all a mystery, an adventure.
That’s awfully nice of you to share a video of Von Franz after I mentioned how frustrating it was with my parents glorifying her, and yet not having the simple ability to relate to something not that mental, and she does address this notion of “depression” as a disease. That it isn’t. But beyond that, her whole analyses of how a community is built, or how Switzerland survives as a country…. It’s never the community as she describes it that gives a space for evolution, never has been, never will be, doesn’t work that way. It’s the one organism that deviates from such a matrix, that mutates, that does its own thing, that listens to its own voice, and it finds a whole other harmony beyond the strategical organization of “the community.” You can look at the community, say how it works, present all the cogs in the wheel, all the pieces coming together to make this machinery, and yet, it’s exactly the one piece that doesn’t “fit,” that moves away and does its own thing, it’s THAT piece that finds the link to adaptation to an environment that’s always changing, and is never going to warp creativity to what “the community” feel safe with. And it’s that piece that’s part of, and always has been, of a completely different harmony, calling that a community could be too limiting, given how that word is used.
Yeah, Von Franz, God bless her, is great for people that want to create mental constructs, enough bars to build a cage, that whatever they are saying stays put there……is made out to be perspective, insight, understanding, and perhaps for some people it works for themâŚ.. God Bless itâŚ..
But that’s what Plato (and it was his allegory, Socrates was an actor in it), was saying about the cave. It’s the voices telling people what the shapes on the wall are, it’s THOSE voices trying to make people feel safe that they âknowâ somethingâŚâŚ
Itâs quite silly of Von Franz to talk about how Switzerland doesnât fight war, when would one really look at the banking system, what Switzerland has to do with it, how all sides are funded, imprisoned in debt, and thus manipulated to keep the circle going by sociopaths controlling the banks, the corporations etc. Those people wouldnât even feel what Franz talks about as âholyâ suffering. To begin with they are product of a world that thinks it needs to train a certain crowd of people to fight their wars, to put people in jail, to punish via the judicial system: those people are TRAINED to turn off human empathyâŚ..
What kind of a magic is depression supposed to be, by the way? I talked to an uber driver, who out of nowhere simply stated: âIn Africa we donât have depression, no one is sad, if youâre sad you do somethingâŚ..â Iâve heard this so often, people wonder what youâre supposed to get out of sitting in a room talking about unpleasant things, and this will solve your âdepression.â In the meantime, the wind hasnât stopped blowing, because thereâs a variation of air pressure, this wafts clouds through the avenues in the air, and thereâs rain, and the plants grow. All while someone is locked up inside this little room being âdeepâ and having mental âperspective and insight,â building mansions and castles in âairâ they have such mental insightsâŚâŚâŚâŚ
It might actually being someone that becomes âun-rootedâ as Von Franz refers too, that actually instead sees the beauty of the flowers, still there, still part of home. And become part of nature, rather than living to get rewards from the system. And an âun-rootedâ or ârootlessâ community also would understand trauma enough that it wouldnât be like in a ârootedâ community where when someone is too different, THEY end up being the ones of whom it is decided that person is crazy. Itâs âthe communityâ that does that, and any trauma is too much it to deal with, would it expose these voices keeping them locked up and safeâŚâŚ.. When you instead show interest in the trauma, you see what it really is, rather than some necessary form of population control, and there wouldnât be this group of people trained to traumatize others, call it justice, or a means to an end, and perhaps THEN the wars, and the deceptions that they are necessary at all for societal harmony, THENâŚ. You might have a âcommunity.â And miracles would happens, and be natural and ânormal.â
Again, this is amazing investigative work, and truly conscientious articulate exposing of data that should be exposed. But what is the basic premise? The basic premise is that “depression” is a disease that needs to be treated by medical intervention, and then we have the varying statistics regarding which method has the most remission. And it’s getting worse, but there remains no real articulate perspective on what we’re dealing with, regarding what this is. Is “depression” really a disease that needs medical intervention? What is a “disease” when it’s not medical, which depression hasn’t shown to be at all, so far, in reality, unless you call something medical and then as methods to treat this proceed in time there’s less remission. This is then medical? If we make it worse with our treatment, which we administer by calling it medical, is it then still legitimately a disease when everything gets worse because we called it a disease and keep on calling that while it snow balls into an epidemic? And what does it do to collective consciousness when people believe this label, does it help them understand what’s going on or they more and more paranoid regarding normal responses to life? Are they apt to be scared when they have a response that’s basically normal, and would play itself out with nature, or are they going to become alarmed and be controlled by fear, and end up being vulnerable to suggestion?
I’ve had two psychologists as parents, and both in ways remained oblivious to understanding the simple relationship there is with parenting, being a parent, and normal emotional interactions with your children. The kind of stuff parents who just are parents do so that their children can feel safe in making themselves vulnerable with their feelings, with their insights, with their thoughts, with their experiences, the simply normal stuff that goes on between human beings heralding what it is to be human. Instead the amount of high level analyzing, and diagnosing, and feeling like one is a hero by glamorizing anyone (well not anyone a specific few, a nice cherry picked group) making a victim out of themselves with a psychodrama…..Normal human interactions that create a healthy environment for emotional health are seen as disruptive, something they didn’t have time for, because they are so busy with psycho-dramas, so busy enabling a vulnerable person’s victimhood and using it as an excuse to not be what any normal parent would be in being what any child needs and in the meantime keeping their clients going round in circles, over analyzing and diagnosing situations, constructing mental labyrinths involving imagery via Von Franz or Jung or the other whose name I can’t remember, and building up castles in the air, this is glorified, and the people exploiting the vulnerabilities of others to attach to such philosophical, academic of “scientific” constructs when they are desperate for answers, they are made out to be superhumans. Although my parents never put me in an asylum, never had me forced drugged, but when I really needed someone to simply listen, and this lead to what it would lead with anyone, they then said they were worried about me becoming ward of the state. This AFTER, all I did was express what went on in my life that I couldn’t talk about, and my father threatened to call the police would I not shut up. This whole “societal” melange of diagnosis that say a person is disabled, they could use that as an excuse to not be parents, same as society denies what’s really going on, and social constructs the same as what define poverty or minority status these are then diseases making out that a person’s responses are signs of a disease, rather than cause and effect that might even determine what kind of a society it is, rather than what kind of a person it is. My mother had a client whose partner was a psychiatrist, who then had me diagnosed, actually filled with ideas that I thought something was going on that hadn’t been, when in reality all my mother or the psychiatrist would have to have done is as the neighbor lady, and she would have said the same thing she told me regarding what I’m not going to mention here. Again, just convenient dismissal regarding whether their diagnosis of their son was accurate or not, just avoid finding out whether what he’s going on about, and knew was going to happen beforehand really did. And it’s really scary realizing people are THAT locked up, and their basic ideas of what happens and what doesn’t is disabled. I for example thought I could talk to this psychiatrist, and she’d be able to listen, see that what had happened had happened, be professional regarding actually listening without prior disabling bias, and I should have been able to feel that, but no, I kept trying to fill this void, which wasn’t even so much a void, but some sort of vacuum that kept sucking out anything I might say into this area of diagnosis. As soon as it seems improbable, or goes against some programming or brainwashing, there comes the security they have that it’s not going on. The one thing being on disability did for me all these years was give me the space to be creative, to allow the arts to be healing, what their nature is. When I could have lost it, like the people you see “ranting and raving” on a street corner (the ones the New York mayor was trying to convince should all be put into an asylum https://www.ascendantny.com/involuntary-treatment-laws-in-new-york/ describing just that, the ones you’ve all seen at street corners), instead of trying to vent that way, I could go to a computer, with midi keyboard, and compose music, my mind, ears, heart, fingers, eyes, spirit, etc. had something to do, just to do, because I was alive, not because I had to fit into the system that was oppressing me…. that’s a great win for me, I could for my soul discover what art truly is as healing, I didn’t have to meet anyone’s idea of whether it fulfilled their desire to be entertained, as if it’s a drug an intoxication, but in the meantime, go to any museum, any concert hall, read any book, look at any poetry, the stuff that has survived time, the stuff that was created during the same struggles we have now that surround us every day, the stuff that shows what’s left over what remains, the beauty that was there the whole time, and you’ll find yourself in community with people that the mental health system has all used as example of having some mental health disease they could in this time fix up. Whole communities of psychiatrists with high paychecks, abilities to prescribe medications, offices ready, could lock those up who weren’t being treatment compliant, recite whole lengths of academic and philosophical analyses of what’s going on, spice this up with what kind of magic yet to be found chemical imbalance is going on, fix this with what’s proven after an interim of suppressing symptoms to make everything worse, and voila, just give us a time machine and we can fix up Beethoven for bipolar, Dickens for depression, and then people like Sylvia Plath, Camille Claudel, Josef Hassid, Nijinsky, Virginia Woolf, and all the others whose lives were ruined by the mental health system, they would be fixed up now too, although current treatment might have less success as well as being involved with causing an epidemic. But we have this hunt going on for what we haven’t found, we’re making headway, the brain is so illusive, we haven’t found it yet, in the meantime things have gotten much worse statistically, we’re actually causing chemical imbalance scientifically rather than healing it, but……..
Is this really a disease? When you listen to a Mozart symphony, when you watch a Shakespeare play, when you look at a painting of Frida Kahlo, stand in the Sistine Chapel do you think: “that person had a disease, let’s see what was wrong with them” or do you think something else was going on? Any of those people could end up in a present psychiatrist’s office and voila……
HOW predatory in reality is this to go on about some disease, for more than half a century have “cures” that with the statistics going on start at 15% don’t get better to then 97% don’t, those diagnosing in the beginning having started the whole wave of “diagnosis” associated with what ends up being a spike of mental health diseases in general (more names, more diseases, less healing), and to say anything about this one still has to go on about a disease, because that was the beginning? How predatory is this, actually? How predatory is this to keep condoning what started the whole scourge?
Here https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ is the link for the article from mindfreedom pointing out that 1)They didn’t have true proof of a chemical imbalance then, and still don’t we can see now. That to prove this, they make reference to textbooks which say “medications” are a treatment, although the same textbooks say there is not proof the medications treat chemical imbalances. This was supposed to suffice as proof there’s a chemical imbalance, although the textbooks do the opposite. I don’t know whether the textbooks actually state how psychiatric medications CAUSE scientifically chemical imbalance that wasn’t there before, or that this is made out to be a cure of what they cause, because it disables the mind, although in the long term there’s then more of the problem. We are dealing with academics and how they are funded, but THEN already the very textbooks disprove the point the APA was trying to prove, but still the APA said the opposite.
Then, they went on about an increasing problem, again ignoring that they were scientifically condoning causing chemical imbalance (and it’s short term suppression of symptoms), as what needs to happen, rather than what statistics and science showed, in that it was part of the cause of the rise in the problem. And they stated terms like someone not conforming to statistical based norms, as being significant as something medical, rather than it is a sociological construct that also could define minority status, poverty, living in a war zone, etc.
And sorry, I had to mend this paragraph below, I’ve mended the holes with what’s inbetween the []’s… Sorry I hadn’t meditated yet, and all of this is like some sort of assault with confusion technique. AI makes this out of confusion technique: “The confusion technique is a hypnosis strategy that uses a series of contradictory suggestions to confuse and disorient the subject. The goal is to put the subject in a state of cognitive overload, which makes them more receptive to suggestions and more likely to enter a trance. ” , How is what’s going on here confusion technique? One way is it’s where assumptions are thrown at you, such as “common treatment is how something healed, if there’s a problem THAT is how you must treat it, because that’s what the authorities said to do to heal,” while disregarding the true science and statistics, and presenting instead the minority that would make out the benefit, or society would make out the benefit, while backing this up with not only corrupt statistics, but corrupted scientific statements. Or simply that something that is a normal response to life, and is actually part of natural intelligence is made out to be a disease, and one can only address the statistics of how a supposed treatment of it as a disease, that that isn’t working and causing problems [only if one lists it as a disease, regardless of whether it truly is], regardless of whether one is going on about a legit disease, to begin with. Or simply overloading someone with stuff that takes more scrutiny than one is capable of, one doesn’t know how to go about, scrutiny that is met with all sort of attempts at being made invalid or assaulted with ways it doesn’t meet any of the strongly held brainwashed assumptions people have been indoctrinated with, when people aren’t going to check their brainwashing, but assault one with more of what they don’t dare to question, as if you’re undermining their safety, when again you are doing the opposite given any perspective. And they know certain ideas have been brainwashed into the public at large, and anyone questioning said presumptions is going to be met with a mob mentality, and so they, maintaining such assumptions, start throwing all of those assumptions at you, as if they are true, even when they know they aren’t, just to make you feel overloaded…… “confusion technique”
My mending of the paragraph from the comment this is a reply to, because I noticed my mind was starting to become QUITE overloaded:
And then you had these amazing bubbles in the Prozac commercial (does Prozak with a C look better, as Prozac, rather than âProzakâ) which treat this unproven chemical imbalance, which the APA couldnât validate but tried to say there was proof by saying academic books that prove the opposite [that when they state there’s no proof that a chemical imbalance is being treated, this can be ignored when the book states that psychiatric drugs are treatment, even thought they have been proven to cause chemical imbalance], that [when] there is no proof contain[ed in] this proof [it is still proof because saying that a book which lists treatment based on proof that is said to exist but doesn’t is proof, even though the same book actually states there IS no proof] (although they still maintain what has been proven to not be scientifically verifiable treatment is how you treat, although itâs still made out to be scientific [when it hasn’t been made out to be scientific, but listing this as treatment means there is proof, regardless that there is no proof), or they maintain a stance going on about statistical based norms which defines poverty, minority status or living in a war zone as a disease: âhttps://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/â
“Kraepelin” is the one that defined “schizophrenia” condoning the investment in “treatments” that ruined the lives of say Camille Claudelle, albeit further defining what she went through as a disease, when I wouldn’t think so, and know that heals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Claudel even wikipedia seems to agree with me on points. And then Virginia Woolf, who committed suicide rather than be reinstitutionalized…… Or then Alan Turing, Kraepelin saw homsexuality as a disease, as well: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18175635/ And I’m mentioning those two, Woolf and Turing, because how they resonated with my life, during my years of healing, and were there….. there IS something beyond all of that…..
This is where we’re at, using the statistics of someone who defined homosexuality as a disease, when his condoned treatment of “depression” has more remission than…..
Not that I want to discount Robert Whitakerâs amazingly articulate research, at all. I probably would have rolled my eyes long ago and thought: WTF!? and stopped trying to even decipher peopleâs own goings on and dismissed it as nonsense. Seriously, Iâm not trying to discount at all Robert Whitakerâs amazing input, itâs just look, see, what one has to resort to to even respond to whatâs going on. Like: WOW!
This is where we are with this merry go round, to try to convince people making the 93% mark in not healing people (unless one takes 33% after they donât follow their own machinery of how itâs done), in order to make out what they said was a disease was a disease. Look heh, they are making this âdiseaseâ worse. We can point to before this more âmedicalâ method it was 15% werenât âhealedâ. NOW itâs 93%. But we are still going on about âa disease.â
What if a society defined someone not wanting to go to church, given that most people in that society are brainwashed regarding the afterlife being infinite eternal torture would they not, and this is then a disease, and subject to one of the two cures? In one case you have 93% not cured, although itâs made out to be 33% by various more than questionable meansâŚ. And in the other itâs 15% not cured. Does this still make it in either case a legit disease, and somehow, I donât see that Dean Schuyler and certainly not Kraepelin (who âdefinedâ âschizophreniaâ) as people who are going to by now have necessarily stopped the whole biological method from making the 93% mark in their attempt to make whatever out to be a disease. What about the 15%? And what are we really going on about? What if they defined say a sprained ankle as a disease, had convinced society of who knows what, such people end up in a âmedicalâ situation, and WOW only 15% arenât healedâŚ.. Somehow, to me that 15% hospitalized for âdepressionâ donât remit doesnât speak for THAT method being so amazing, although yeah, this isnât 97%. WHICH method shows, heh, this isnât working, and WHY is this not acknowledged!? If you go back to the older method it’s 15% don’t remiss, but was it ever a disease as diagnosed, and what about the 15%? And was that even really accurate?
When people with guns come and invade your land, steal it away from you, and your whole culture is suppressed, the very belief system that nurtured the genes that grow your amazing body, if this causes âdepression,â itâs seen as a disease. And then global warming wouldnât be going on were such beliefs honored, something affecting the whole planet, unless you want to rig or suppress results to make out this isnât going on, all sorts of diseases from pollution etc. etc. A society more and more mechanized and looking for stimulant from consumerism, and what one gets from causing global warming and polluting the planet, which is seen as some sort of gain, despite what it might do to future generations. Look see: âAlthough suicide was infrequent among North American Indigenous tribes prior to colonization, their suicide and suicide-related behaviors (e.g., ideation, suicide planning, and suicide attempts) have become a major public health concern.â https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2011-23063-016 From one frantic Internet search.
Thatâs just one example also, of such âdefinitions,â used just like that. Now itâs âmedical.â WTF!?
Iâm not even saying that this isnât a challenge to find that, heh, thereâs still something there worth wanting to live, beyond all of them making happiness out to be what they stole. God still exists, perhaps. Maybe you have a spirit that nothing can destroy, thatâs part of forever, and allowing that rather than sadness, or anger, or even trying to push sadness or anger away as if itâs a disease, and instead just feeling it, that this isnât more than what your ego says you needâŚâŚallowing the sadness, seeing it as a natural response might invoke natural intelligence and find solutionsâŚ..
Or not being able to get a good looking boyfriend to go to the prom: there used to be advertisement all over the TV, which I think is before the Internet so much, that social anxiety or insecurity can be âcuredâ by âantidepressants.â And then you had these amazing bubbles in the Prozac commercial (does Prozak with a C look better, as Prozac, rather than âProzakâ) which treat this unproven chemical imbalance, which the APA couldnât validate but tried to say there was proof by saying academic books that prove the opposite, that there is no proof contain this proof (although they still maintain what has been proven to not be scientifically verifiable treatment is how you treat, although it’s still made out to be scientific), or they maintain a stance going on about statistical based norms which defines poverty, minority status or living in a war zone as a disease: âhttps://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/â
If you donât have enough money to buy fashionable clothes, but the medical establishment will have your insurance fix you up with their antidepressant. What about selling the Brooklyn bridge to make people think they own something whether it’s there’s or whether it truly exists, as long as they don’t check whether it is or can be theirs for real? Does this PROVE poverty is a disease!?
But EXCUSE me WTF!?
If I see this as a disease, this method making it out such has 85 success rate (if I see it as a disease), it then gets worse when itâs dealt with more âscientificallyâ, according to those who donât follow science, the success rate actually adds up to 3% âscientificallyâ when you bend the rules that being scientific means just saying you are, but not following the rulesâŚâŚ and then itâs 67, which is still less than 85, although following the rules shows itâs 3%?
NOTE this is not some surrealistic exercise using a random generation of numbersâŚâŚ. Neither does it seem to be an attempt at being a humorous portrayal of CORRUPTION by making numbers out they are LEGITIMATE resultsâŚ
And Iâm REALLY not trying to dehumanize anyone that is having difficulty with depression, by ridiculing them⌠itâs just, perhaps thereâs another way, and this way leads towards healing. Maybe not being so scared to try something out of the box might help⌅
There was interaction that this comment was difficult to understand, which I understand. So, I add…..
I heard this word in my mind: “reticulating,” whose meaning I didn’t know, but put it in knowing it would be descriptive, then had to look it up (if it wasn’t pertinent I would have removed it from my word processor file where I kept this comment). And so made a remark how this could be seen as “schizophrenic,” that I didn’t check myself. In order to point out the amount of thought we’re supposed to edit from being expressed because of such diagnosis. It also was hard to read the word âremitting,â used in a fashion which seems to be more about hiding that there wasnât remission, so was in reality was the opposite. I had to three times read those statements before I realized I was giving the word on the screen an opposite meaning, while knew what remission meant, my mind having put it as meaning the opposite, while I KNEW consciously what it meant, the whole time it being used in a way that in realityâŚ..
In my life, because things that really were going on, and actually happened involving psychic input, and that even when it showed I was seeing things before they happened, that I couldn’t talk about this, I couldn’t process this, and was “diagnosed,” which I’ve seen with others like me, as well. And it’s something Peter Breggin says about “schizophrenia,” you’ve had quite a few people on this site with articles stating similar things. Just about everyone read fictional novels, knows fairy tales, etc. but this isnât considered harboring tendencies towards âschizophreniaâ !?
Whether itâs simple stuff a person canât process they are going through, and the fictional ânon reality basedâ stuff they need to believe to allow it to be fictions, whether itâs this or whether itâs beyond that, and spiritual energyâŚâŚ.. there just might be something going on that functional rather than a disease.
Iâve never been diagnosed as being depressed, havenât even had any âfriendsâ go on interventions regarding me life, but then Iâm supposed to be socially backwards or something like that, so I donât have such hanging on around me with badges. The level at which a person is supposed to go on as if being sad in an unhealthy situation is a disease, as if nothing is going on to cause the reaction but a chemical imbalance they canât prove… as being confused in a situation so confusing that one NEEDS to have perspective in an inner world and the logical response for this is called “non reality based” because same as fiction it has meaning when allowed to express a perspective on life (or beyond that involves senses that aren’t relating to the physical but to a spiritual source), or one can’t “concentrate” and reproduce data that’s really more an attempt to brainwash a person, again would a health perspective be given, or that the environment in itself doesn’t induce the ability to concentrate, or that a person isn’t interested nor really in the long run needs to be. ThusÂ
Schizophrenia, Depression ADHD and what else, that we are supposed to put in a jail cell saying they are malevolent things, when the whole process of them being accused of such isn’t really all that logical or founded perhaps, if at all..⌠is just to hide what? What if they were free to express themselves, or âGod forbidâ encouraged to for reasons of enlightenment or perspectiveâŚ..
Locking everyone up who isnât fearful of something, is this going to make everyone else fearful of it, regardless of whether thereâs a reason to allow some freedom instead rather than fear?
Why is fear so worshiped? Be scared of yourself, you have a disease. Isnât that mind control 101, make people believe they are under attack?
And you maintain a society where fear is a necessary ingredient for deterrent, and fear is instilled through trauma, whether itâs the penal system, the medical system, wallstreet and the paycheck, grades in school, religions going on about Hell or who knows what (militaries with enough weaponry to kill all human life on the planet more than 20 times over to make sure the enemy would be dead in whatâs called overkill), people are going to be so controlled by fear, they donât know what it is to be human anymore and basic impulses of compassion are made out to be a disease and ANYTHING out of the box is âcrazyâ⌅and you have these people called âsociopaths,â running so much of the system, because YOU believed you needed people able to use fear to control human behavior, and THAT is where it leads.
âMoreover, while the abstract of the November report told of a cumulative remission rate of 67%, the discussion section of the paper revealed that this was, in part, a made-up number. The researchers had theorized that if those who had dropped out had remained in the study through all four stages of treatment, they would have remitted at the same rate as those who hadnât dropped out, and they added these imagined remissions to their tally of patients who had gotten well. Without these imaginary remissions, the reported remission rate in the November 2006 paper would have been around 50%.â
I had to read this three times before I realized that remission means it gets better, rather than the other, added to this, when it supposedly wouldnât have gotten better, given theâŚ.. then itâs what they say got better, and being better (According to them( is actually worseâŚâŚ
Itâs kind of hard to read a statement when the word âremissionâ means the opposite, and you know this from experience, but are still supposed to actually read it for what itâs meant to mean, when itâs wrongâŚ..
âIn a 2010 paper, Pigott and colleagues also made sense of the graphic representing the one-year results. Of the 4,041 patients who entered the trial, only 108 had remitted and then stayed well and in the study to its one-year end, a documented stay-well rate of 3%. All of the others had either never remitted, remitted and then relapsed, or dropped out of the study. This was an outcome that was quite at odds with the 67% âcumulative remission rateâ being touted to the public as evidence of the effectiveness of antidepressants.â
Of those who dropped out, how much got better, itâs like more than 3% or not?
It becomes something what THIS MUCH effort it put into what doesnât work, even exposing that it doesnât work then becomes more reticulating in order to make out: âsee, someone doesnât like us, they will always rebel, weâre right because those good for nothings donât like itâŚ.â
Anybody that gets upset about being lied to is of courseâŚ..
Note, I didnât know what reticulating meant when putting it in above statement, I had a âpsychoticâ impulse to believe that something whose meaning I didnât consciously know had pertinence, I allowed my uncontrolled psychotic impulses to make me think that I could just put that word in and look it up later, to see WHY I had heard it out of nowhere, not negating that something heard in my mind, when I didn’t consciously know what it meant and thus was unconstructed thought by the conscious mind, should be discarded as non reality based:
Reticulate, definition according to âOxford languagesâ is: âdivide or mark (something) in such a way as to resemble a net or network.
“the numerous canals and branches of the river reticulate the flat alluvial plain”
Sorry, in my rant, I….
“nor is it solved by only hiring people to solve the problem that are going to do only that, and will question that itâs solving the problem while itâs causing more of it.” should read
nor is it solved by only hiring people to solve the problem that are going to do only that, and won’t question whether itâs solving the problem while itâs causing more of it.
I’m sorry, it’s difficult to simply keep track of all of the indoctrinated behavior….z
And, in thinking about this one line, prior: I pondered how this is like manufacturers making products that are designed, on purpose, to break down after a period of time, so you have to buy a new one, or manufactured obsolescence. I was wondering how many medications where there’s proof they treat some sort of chemical imbalance, that there was something the tests could determine was missing, and that these medications correlated with causing that chemical to again be present. I mean, there must be all sorts of chemical processes going on where one can find there’s this one thing missing, but when you introduce a medication that introduces what’s missing, the medications causes a whole series of side effects. So, I did a search with this: “medications that treat chemical imbalances but have side effects that are worse than no treatment” and what were most of the google results!? They are about psychiatric medications, which have NOT been proven to treat a chemical imbalance, but instead cause one, which is then seen as healing because it disables the mind, although in the long term things get worse, thus the spike in the problem current. And most of the hits were “promoting” this theory that hasn’t been proven, that psychiatric drugs treat chemical imbalances.
This is quite something, that when I do a search involving “chemical imbalances” one mostly gets hits that spout the same theories that have been proven to instead of treating a chemical imbalance are causing one, and more problems in the end, and is called therapy. Hit after hit after hit. And I was looking to see what kind of medications that scientifically actually can be said to treat a chemical imbalance might have side effects that cause serious problems. I mean, if there’s a chemical imbalance, there’s all sorts of ways to change one’s behavior, one’s diet, one’s responses etc. and the body itself is AMAZING and can make all sorts of changes itself, and start re-balancing itself, without the problem of a medication intruded into the process and perhaps causing more of one chemical deemed to be missing, while in the process causing all sorts of side effects that point out it’s better to do things that get the body or spirit itself to re-balance what’s going on. That kind of myopic behavior. So, I did a search for medications proven to treat chemical imbalances, not one promoted as doing such but doing the opposite and causing one, and apparently this catch phrase “chemical imbalances,” referring to “medications” that cause such rather than treating such, this has become so ingrained that……. it’s like the word “therapy,” when used. People are THAT brainwashed. THAT triggered.
The same with: “chemical imbalance,” or “chemical imbalance symptoms,” a whole splurge of hits showing how the words “chemical imbalance” have been corrupted. In fact, when people have normal emotional responses to life, responses that when given a bit of legroom might give needed perspective, or with proper help could be understood so a person has a heightened understanding of themselves, they are during these times made to believe something is going on while the “treatment” that is billed as healing: it actually scientifically and statistically proves to cause it…….
Thanks to the incredible work of Moncrieff, though, there is one hit that says the following, hit number six for me: “Patients should be informed that there is no evidence that antidepressants work by correcting a chemical imbalance, that antidepressants have mind-altering …”
“I want to help,” “Do this!” But don’t question whether that is really helping because it has an exclamation point. That DOESN’T mean it’s so critical that you can negate whether what you’re doing is really helping. I feel so sorry for ANYONE ever having to deal with a system that is making them worse while they have to act as if it’s making them better, can’t say how it’s really affecting them, can’t know it’s not really helping, can’t even question whether it’s really helping. And are made terrified of non violent normal responses to trauma, or a difficult situation the brain is trying to gain perspective on, while they are forced to believe or act like they believe that…..
Reading this article, one could become quite hysterical the amount of times the word “therapy” is used in order to point out what?
If it statistically correlates with less recovery, a whole spike in the problem it’s said to heal (something one might call an epidemic), then WHY is it called therapy: “Here take this, and go there, it statistically causes more of the problem, and then you’ll get more therapy for the therapy, and……..
You know, I think it’s called “brainwashing” actually.
Try: more “therapy” is not the answer and put “it” in italics.
Or simply: “More Brainwashing doesn’t make something that’s not working work,” and then somewhere add, “although there’s more of the problem needing therapy, this doesn’t mean that the ‘therapy’ that was implemented, was supposed to work, which instead caused more of the problem, not only does this point out it caused more of the problem, you can not separate this from needing more ‘therapy’ and deny there’s a causal link, while making out what statistically and scientifically correlates with more of the problem is going to fix it just because it’s called ‘therapy’ and is the mainstream approach.”
That’s ALSO brainwashing 101, make people believe they are being attacked, and then spoon feed them how to fix the problem, and you have control over them. That ISN’T therapy that’s deceiving people. No matter HOW BAD the problem has become it is NOT going to be fixed with what’s in correlation with CAUSING it. No matter HOW MUCH one has the need to BELIEVE on is doing something, and then just do what one is told to do, when this isn’t fixing the problem no matter how much one is told it will, it still WILL NOT. NOT even if the problem seems to go away temporarily. Not even when you disable the brain with “medications” CAUSE chemical imbalance, while telling people they treat them, because this promotes the idea that suppressing the expression of the problem is a cure, then science and statistics has shown the problem does not go away, but in the majority of cases gets worse. When there’s a problem that needs to be looked at regarding what DOES help it, this isn’t solved by suppressing being able to express there’s a problem. When there’s a warning signal, and you cut the wires to the warning signal, that doesn’t mean what it was manufactured to point out has gone away. And when there’s more of the problem this ISN’T solved by having more “authority” to cut the wires for more warning signals pointing out the problem, nor is it solved by only hiring people to solve the problem that are going to do only that, and will question that it’s solving the problem while it’s causing more of it.
People that don’t understand trauma, or who don’t understand that there’s a whole part of reality that can solve that trauma (so maybe it’s not trauma, it’s just a challenge), but the solution isn’t following the “rules” of said society, whether it’s economic, spiritual, political or the rest of it……… people who don’t understand and offer solutions that don’t work for those who don’t want to be deceived (whether that’s conscious or subconscious) this isn’t a solution for people actually wanting answers……
Yeah, in the article “therapy” is used 12 times it seems. And this isn’t a fill in the blank test meaning replace that blank: “therapy” with SOMETHING ELSE!
Dogworld, well that sounds like a bunch of concepts put together to sound like they mean something. “This is that” just fill in the blank with this and that, and then. But it could also be “whatever:” new chance to add something, so they might not actually look at whether this is that. Make sure you add something, to make it sound well thought out, so that no one looks at how you began this “smorgasborg,” and then add something else. “sometimes that isn’t this, and thus “other-variant” can linger on (oh, yeah, we always are concerned about something else lingering on…..forgot about that, thank you, also for distracting me from ever looking to see whether this was that to begin with). Just fill in the blank for: “this,” “that,” “whatever,” and “othervariant,” and find a name for your “smorgasborg,” calling it a disease (trauma, schizophrenia, etc.) and viola: you’re scientific!
Oops, but this response of not being able to take it seriously anymore, lingers on…. is that because of “othervariant?”
I’m sorry, but I find this quite typical, that when one starts [reading] what a dream would be, it begins with “To understand the language of dream we need to understand the concept of metaphor.” WHO is dreaming? Are we to be told how to understand our own dreams!? This is quite typical of psychology, or therapy: this is that, rather than sharing what would be objective which would be a person’s own experience with how they understood their own dreams, RATHER than going on about others, and what’s what there, and how this person isn’t a danger, but still not reality based. A whole school going on about “schizophrenia” when to have such “objectivity,” you can’t have experienced exactly “that” enough to take it in [what it REALLY is] you can’t have actually experienced what it is by being brainwashed regarding what you’ve been through to see it as something SOMEONE ELSE tells you as to what it is.
And then the “economic” side, where AGAIN, all those having experienced this real “dream” this “schizophrenia” and having understood it can speak that language, and have survived DESPITE everything. No, we can’t have those “unauthorized” people stepping in and interfering with our brainwashing, those that can speak out of experience. Makes me wonder whether there are more âschizophrenicsâ than âpsychiatrists and psychologists,â simply as to who actually knows what this is, having experienced it. Let alone youâre dowsed down with âmedicationsâ you might not like, if youâre even allowed to not like them, they donât statistically in the end correlate with ârecovery,â which you arenât allowed to know either: what yourself, your soul, subconscious, unconscious, past lives, whatever thatâs ânon reality basedâ talking to you, youâre not ALLOWED to see that as real, but are given freedom when you label it as âschizophrenia,â even stuff that went on in your life with open eyes, but they wonât believe. But no, thereâs no government program with martians, or whoever and whatever when ANYONE has to try to navigate through WHAT THE BLEEP is going on, CIA surveillance, FBI surveillanceâŚ.. but fine, if you have this highly constructed mental idea of what it is, and it remains safe enough for us[âthemâ] to not be exposed as not really knowing what we’re [theyâre] going on about, here’s a paycheck. But don’t say you’re a”schizophrenic-dreamer” yourself, and certainly don’t actually share it if you are, STAY OBJECTIVE, as in here: “Now, by no means do I suggest accepting this story as reality. Clearly, this man was not a victim of some secret government-Martian collaboration, and it would ultimately be harmful to encourage this kind of thinking. Yet for this particular individual, these events were his reality, and refusing to acknowledge that such a subjective realityâhowever odd it may beâcan exist would be equally harmful. The optimal position, then, would be to treat the situation symbolically, like we would a dream.”
Is it a non reality based dream to think that you need to wear clothes if you go out in public in the US? Or is this reality based? When arrested for [this] not believing in this “non reality based dream” does this validate it as reality!? Someone walking around naked, as when they were born, this is going to be a detriment to society, should be suppressed, that person arrested, and this is NO DREAM, itâs REAL, it could damage peopleâs consciousness, destroy societal harmony were naked people walking around! From THERE to a whole barrage of nonsense we all are subjected to regarding what’s real and what isn’t, and here someone in an institution can’t think WHAT without it being dissected, but leave the rest alone, that’s statistical based norms, etc. Let’s believe that someone going on about martians is not reality based, lock him up, dope him up, but don’t bring up ridiculous social rules that are so ingrained you’re “crazy” and lacking “insight” do you not follow them.
ANYONE having briefly looked in an open minded and articulate way into secret government programs and alien technology would KNOW there are parts of the government looking to harness stuff they see going on from UFOs etc. but what I understand, and those involved with such technology, without the problem of wanting to harness it to say war machinery, they say such technology as part of the Universe only works when a person has let go of fear in their life, which isnât going on with a âgovernmentâ that nurtures fear, coercion and the ability to destroy as a means to control in a way they make out is social harmony. And so that could be absolutely much more true what this supposed ânon reality based metaphor dreamerâ is going on about than whoever is deciding: âClearly, this man was not a victim of some secret government-Martian collaboration, and it would ultimately be harmful to encourage this kind of thinking.â I think that the âMartiansâ would they have such technology would be too advanced to go along with the âgovernmentâsâ way of wanting to harness it, nor even that itâs possible, but this doesnât exclude the governmentâs attempts, along with the rest of the ways the try to âharnessâ the minds and lives of people. And for ANYONE sensitive enough to somehow pick up on such stuff, I donât think that more patronizing such as: âoh, youâre a good person, just a little sick, itâs your reality but we canât see it as anything but your own subjective reality, a dream youâre having, although itâs reality we canât condone,â this is going to do WHAT!? No area 51 doesnât exist etc.
SORRY, but I get so tired an infuriated to read these well meant attempts to help others when to begin with:
1) Youâve not been through this yourself, had whatever going on in your life where the only way to gain perspective was endeavoring to believe in stuff OTHERS decided was non reality based and that it would be bad to condone as reality, WHILE they every day obey all sorts of social constructs that are so off that everyone is mostly basically SCARED to even rationally bring up questioning them.
2) And if anybody HAS had such experiences, theyâre likely to be given no voice, put down further than second rung, while being beaten down and suffocated with more criteria regarding: âwell it goes this way, and keep your clothes on if youâre in public, but if you see someone actually naked, keep in mind it could be the emperor, and his clothes are really there, theyâre just invisible, but YOU arenât the emperor, so keep yours on, you donât HAVE invisible clothes.
Hint: not wearing clothes being either the emperor or someone lacking insight is a âmetaphorâ for societyâs thinking, I havenât yet myself had experience with any emperor walking around with invisible clothing, not even in a dream; although if youâre in an asylum, and you have to say you believe what they tell you to get out despite knowing better, you might just actually say you do, akin to saying that the emperor is wearing clothes, because otherwise you remain locked up. And donât feel bad if you actually believe it for awhileâŚ. That might be a sort of withdrawal symptomâŚ.
What I have experienced is that dreams go WAY beyond metaphors, how anyone could go on about dreams and not have had precognitive ones…. Jung included! Not everyone lives in such âsafeâ environments⌅
Birdsong, I had to laugh. There seem to be a lot of people that think there’s harm in seeing there’s more to physical life and death than meets the eye when it actually does meet the eye. I mean it’s one thing when it remains invisible but when it actually starts animating itself in the physical as well then people really start having problems don’t they? Then it’s schizophrenic or conspiracy theories or whatever…… They especially have problems wheln it shows to exist but they can’t control it to their money ambitions or territorial disputes or need to dominate and control people. And even worse than that, when it’s not going to control people with fear to their morals and limitations, people have big problems. Can’t exist. As if miracles are from the devil or something…..
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Just to make sure you know I was completely joking regarding 666. Me and a really good friend were at one time making a whole book, like you would have on a coffee table, with jokes about 666. For example, put three sixes sequentially down three steps, and I called it “the descent of the beast,” and we had one in a perambulator. Still have it around here somewhere.
Unfortunately, my friend at one time was put on some sort of neuroleptic. She had moved into a new place, and thought she was being a bit florid, and unfortunately went you know where and got a you know what, and you know what. I think the only affect it had was that in the long run she couldn’t sleep did she not take it. She then had a heart attack just before covid. I think she was then already 78. I didn’t even know because her family did nothing but send her body for cadaver use at the local University’s medical department. I had been having really deep dreams, then heard she had passed on, and then heard her voice rather funny: “I guess I’m dead now,” or so. When we had talked about this she was an adamant atheist. She would say that she would become part of the earth, the sun etc. She is someone I had no sorrow for, because I knew she had a good life, despite everything, and she always did things her own way, completely. And she was a really really good friend… actually I have seen her since, I forgot.
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Birdsong, I have an “important” message. Apparently, the Universe agrees with us regarding fear. Because when I clicked on this story, the listed number of views was 666. NOW it is 667. BIG CHANGE to let go of fear…… JUST IMAGINE had I not agreed with you?
That said. It remains unbelievable to me, not only how people behave, worshiping fear as a necessary tool for getting what they want, as if that doesn’t separate them from their “enemy” and in doing so limits their concepts from even knowing what they are aiming for. From not seeing themselves in their enemy, and how they invest in fear to keep that going, and kill themselves, potential, harmony and piece to keep such :justice” going to creating incredibly corrupt dark pockets in this “discipline” they say they think they need to implement this fear. You can NOT tell them they don’t know what they are doing, and you can’t tell them about the dark pockets controlling everything consequently. They would say those are conspiracy theories…
As I said: “Watch the News. Read the New York Times. And you have both factions of enemy and hero changing places on the other side so both can profit off of the gullibility of people.”
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To be honest, I didn’t know the “NEW YORK TIMES” was so bad. I had gotten from my fathers books by Harold C Schonberg about the classic composers, and thought heh…… But reading this article, what they said about a whole list of things, and then other stuff not even mentioned that I know aren’t going to be reported correctly just about anywhere…….
I wouldn’t read the New York Times about ANYTHING political or scientific or medical, unless I wanted to read just one viewpoint, to see what THAT was, and would never find it having perspective… wouldn’t read it but for that one viewpoint ideology etc. Just to see what those people are saying, but I wouldn’t believe that I then knew in general…….
But that’s the way in general with such publications. Has been for years and for years. History itself. What’s in the books.
Most people are SO filled with fear thinking they have to know, have an opinion, have filled their brain with set input, or they aren’t safe, they wouldn’t know what’s going on to begin with, only see what they are told to believe.
In general it’s not believed that sacrificing a goat or a virgin is going to bring safety, that this will appease God, and yet why was this ever going on. I don’t think it was even about “God,” it was a means to traumatize people, to put fear in their lives and gain control. On the other side it was that they think they need these “authorities.” So and such is powerful because it will terrorize people into behaving. etc. etc…..
Now it’s more ideas like a “chemical imbalance,” or “terrorism,” or other “enemies,” and how much are such things produced in order to brainwash people? Mind control 101, make people think they are under attack and you can control them.
Watch the News. Read the New York Times. And you have both factions of enemy and hero changing places on the other side so both can profit off of the gullibility of people.
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I hadn’t quite worked this out, I notice…. Once the psychiatrists, yet to be able to change a light bulb, and their chemical imbalance for knowledge regarding such…….Once they get that far (which as yet is of course completely mental, having added on how you change a light with what to do when others can’t understand this mental need), they intend to work on how you unclog a sink and other such riddlesâŚâŚ since an unclogged sink has a different effect than a light not going on, they are already pondering how to engage with such a problem, but they have determined it could [have] something different than [a variation of] having a chemical imbalance. Since a clogged sink isnât taking in what would flow into it, they think a probable cause is a fear of causing emptiness. And again, they are making headway, and thereâs compelling evidenceâŚ..
You see, a wheel with spokes, has to have a hole in the middle of it, to actually be functional, for an axle. The same you can’t fill up a cup that isn’t empty. And being that for them to fill the cup, or have the world spinning around their axles, and how they want to make sure that such evil influences akin to the the anti-psychiatry don’t get into axles and empty cups (what would happen to carbonation for example?) that a clogged sink has to do with?
With fear of emptiness…
But as yet, they haven’t gotten permission to pour their wisdom, or rather their method and medications into the sink, being that the intent is to unclog it [this will make your sink want to unclog and be empty to be filled with our treatment and wisdom was mentioned as part of a label]. Although they HAVE looked into advertising quite abundantly the powers of their medications to alleviate the fear of emptiness [especially regarding the fear of being empty for them] and then also the danger of being filled with the wrong treatment, but found that the sink allegory could promote people thinking THAT is where their drugs belong, once the sink is unclogged. But they are making headway in how to explain this because it is so circuitous.
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I wonder whether the anti-antipsychiatry contingency is going to say that Bruce Levine is promoting taking a whack at psychiatrists whenever they try to have a creative idea in how to heal the multitudes…….
ON THE OTHER HAND!
There’s this experiment famous in psychology how when you tell people to give another person an electrical shock when they get a wrong answer, how many people keep on doing that EVEN when the person is said to have a heart problem and it’s clear they are being put in danger, although that was a setup: actually, actors. But that is FAMOUS I don’t think that ONE psychiatrist wouldn’t know about this, or almost none, since it’s part of any basic psychology course, and YET how many of them do EXACTLY that…… with their patients…….. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment#:~:text=Beginning%20on%20August%207%2C%201961,sounds%20for%20each%20shock%20level.
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How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
None of them have as yet, they are still trying to prove it has a chemical imbalance, and since that hasn’t panned out have changed-to/are-also-trying-out something called brain circuitry. But, they are making headway, there’s compelling evidence, light bulbs are complicated devices, just like the brain, which they are working on figuring out just to make sure you know HOW they are going to end up changing the lightbulb, when they have figured that out, because if your brain isn’t working properly you wouldn’t know how they change a lightbulb. They are used to trying to explain things to people, and then having to work on the problem of it not being understandable. So, they first have to make sure they know what to do would you not understand how they are changing a lightbulb, then they will actually work on changing a lightbulb, but they are making headway.
Once they get that far, they intend to work on how you unclog a sink and other such riddles…… since an unclogged sink has a different effect than a light not going on, they are already pondering how to engage with such a problem, but they have determined it could something different than [a variation of] having a chemical imbalance. Since a clogged sink isn’t taking in what would flow into it, they think a probable cause is a fear of causing emptiness. And again, they are making headway, and there’s compelling evidence…..
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THANKS! I’ll refresh myself on sine and cosine and all of the geometry stuff. Because as I RECALL all they did was teach us this stuff, and make graphs, and never for any purpose….. That really helps, it makes it multidimensional, and I could look for other ways — what was hammered into my head in highschool one hour a day for a whole year — that it has purpose.
Just to be facetious, but hate speech, the different words to insult people from different cultures, races, sexual identities, ages, what’s called “intelligence,” ideas of beauty do those all boil down to the same, or it would be that psychiatric diagnosis have less insight than what’s already lack of insight?
I mean it’s standard knowledge that hate speech doesn’t define anything. Psychiatric diagnosis supposedly does. Does that make such labels worse than being wrong, being that it defines something as being considered right, but it’s wrong. I mean in general when people are treated with such there’s less recovery than when they are “treated.” But then, I might not be using the right way to point this out, whether they come out as the same “word,” as you explained, that might be that they all come out as being “a disease,” when hate speech comes out as being wrong insight.
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There are people who do have marked concerns: https://x.com/LGBCourage/status/1900213621784715771?t=fVovwT9vKi1JFPcFTtRZ6A&s=19
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Dear dear Andrew Seefeldt. I did a search for alternative psychiatrists in Australia, and got for example a hit for this place https://zenwavesclinic.net/integrative-psychiatrists-sydney/ I don’t know if they would be able to take over your case, and listen to your story, and help you thus. But it’s worth a try, perhaps. You aren’t alone, we’re with you. There’s always an answer, despite it’s “crazy” to think so. All that can happen within this “impossibility” called “crazy”…… Don’t give up……
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Just to be clear, although I’ve already responded quite floridly, what I was referring to regarding that there’s too much focus on the physical, I was not saying that one should disregard what psychiatric medications do, and herald how they suppress “symptoms.” One CERTAINLY should not discount that statistically everything gets worse in the long run. What I was saying that if someone actually allows some legroom for whatever was initially going on to look for treatment, and instead want to understand why they just aren’t fitting into what’s called consensual reality deportment, statistical based norms, or the status quo, or even their idea of how life was supposed to play out, that perhaps allowing that, and not wanting to fit in will do more for them than they could have conceived of in thinking it was disrupting their life.
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I wonder if it’s too much to explain this, because I’m interested. How does it turn out that all these different psychiatric diagnosis which clearly are supposed to be separate distinct diseases, how do they turn out to be the same word? I mean, we all sort of know this that they aren’t really based on concrete science, and there’s no consensus between different psychiatrists that they end up diagnosing the same symptoms with the same disease, but how does that turn into them all being the same word?. If it’s too much to explain don’t worry about it I’m just curious.
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Um, someone goes to a psychiatrist because they have something going on in their life, or others think there’s something going on. Whether they feel they are traumatized, or people in their environment think they are crazy (or even stuff that happened they can’t talk about, with others, and think the psychiatrist will help); and then would the psychiatrist come along with: “oh,we’ll fix this, we’ll traumatize your brain too, then you’ll have a traumatized brain and an environment that’s……”
My first therapist I had (after years and years of staying away from any of them I heard of a place that was reasonably alternative), who was a real piece of work. She was so impressed with me, she wanted to use me as a peer, was going to start her own company, and has since. But after telling her all I knew regarding antidepressants, she said she wanted to start the company so that supposedly vulnerable indigenous people could get antidepressants earlier (!?!?!?!?!?!?). She saw some kind of profit from such, and wanted to see whether I would be for that, she KNEW what I said, I had clearly explained the science of it. No, I didn’t become one of her workers. But we had talked quite a bit, and I had told her stuff regarding what’s going on in secret government programs, or something to that extent (I don’t even really remember what I said, I think mind control), and she ended up in a plane going back from applying for some position in California, and the guy next to her was a psychiatrist, she found out, and started telling him about what I had told her. He told her that that stuff really goes on, apparently he had people coming to him regarding such…….
How is HE going to help them traumatizing their brain even further, with meds” not that I know whether he did that but……. Go to a psychiatrist because something is going on in your life you can’t talk about and you stand the chance of…….
I was just brushing my teeth, by the way, and then remembered this also, after realizing, one goes to a psychiatrist and…. and then this story. I know that stuff goes on regarding such programs also…….. But you just touch in with this prevalence of hidden stuff regarding psychiatry, words warped to be used to do the opposite of what they mean, a labyrinth of of crazy assumptions, or outright deceptions, people doing things detached from the outcome calling others non reality based…. I just touch in with it, and there I go with a whole cascade or memories and then yet again another realization of how “crazy” it is….
Still, from all of above and how you honored me with a quote, but I still think that we’re not dealing with physical disease, and even, for those that have got stuck in the system and have said damage, to focus too much on the physical part, might be getting away from what can heal. Because the real “symptoms” of “mental illness” can be stuff that leads back to what’s beyond the physical, and EVEN with the horrible damage psychiatric drugs can cause, and the trauma of treatment, when that stuff that was originally there is allowed FINALLY the space to express itself, it can possibly balance all of that out in a way that wouldn’t be happening if the focus remain on the damage the psychiatric drugs caused…. There’s still something beyond all of that, I think IMHO… a lot of people have recovered, perhaps more than even physical science should say was possible given the damage the drugs do, not that I’m EXCUSING such damage it’s just……. Maybe what was going on was never a disease to begin with, and didn’t need…… there is that element also
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Thanks Kat, I try. You brought it up how even the symptoms that emerge from the “medications” are something else than what was there in the first place before such disabling of natural functions. And then the psychiatrists don’t even see what’s coming from the “medications,” and tally that up as more of the original “disease” emerging.
One tries to use a word like “disease” or “symptom,” and….. the symptoms of the real disease (drugs disabling natural functions) are made out to be symptoms of what was made out to be a disease but was trauma expressing itself (so it can be known, so one can heal knowing), or the “symptom” was simply someone that had perspective beyond what’s considered possible is a supposed symptoms…..
Thanks for pointing that out, because I would say that too, that the drugs cause mental illness (longterm, side effects, withdrawal symptoms, etc.), but then I wasn’t always separating the two. Because of what the drugs do to people, and THEY [the psychiatrists] call it mental illness, and even THEY would they have their eyes open or were they interested in reality could SEE what’s happening, which expresses itself scientifically and statistically, and so one would think you could say to them: “EXCUSE ME your treatment is causing what you say you started treatment for…….” But even beyond that the disease the drugs cause can be proven to exist, the other can’t really. So, it’s even the psychiatrists listing yet again something else, what THEY caused in their treatment, as yet again needing treatment… as if it’s the same thing, and they don’t even see they are causing it, something else, and label it as what one couldn’t really call a disease to begin with. But what the drugs cause IS a disease. So what is “mental illness” the epidemic of psychiatric drug use? THAT would perhaps be accurate. Get rid of the medications, and there wouldn’t be what’s verified to be a chemical imbalance in “mental illness.” There are verifiable chemical imbalances coming from the
medications,” if you want to get rid of that, and treat chemical imbalance in “mental illnesses” get rid of the medications. THAT would be taking what they say they are doing, and being rational with it. Being sane with it. Being reality based with it. You can’t even express the truth, can’t disagree with them (one has to say not all of them, but there you go, it already isn’t about science) without them calling you non compliant, or having anosognosia, ODD. A danger to yourself and others etc… because of what THEY have caused, and you’re not going along with that, for them to see if you end up in the nice cubby hole of complacent compliance, the minority they cherry pick ( I wish I could find a better way to describe this, as I love cherries ) to force it on others, while the majority is consistent with the spike, the epidemic…. Despite that we do have insides, there is an anatomy there…..
I haven’t even been psychiatrically drugged, by the way. I only remained with said “symptoms” and was put on disability. I was just disturbed, at first when diagnosed, like anyone, but then given the situation my brain had to start making up whole figurative arrangements of inner experiences that were so beyond societal norms it scared me, unfortunately, and then one needs a health brain to figure it out. And by some magic of chance I managed to somehow avoid forced treatment, just by a hair’s breadth sometimes, it seems. And it takes a healthy brain to figure out what’s going on, or just to allow the brain itself to find answers, with all the amazing abilities the brain has, what we are given as a gift….. And it’s worth figuring out, it’s amazing and awe-inspiring how what’s made out to be something crazy to turn off is something completely different: perspective that’s liberating, florid, an expression of who we really are, what happens by itself…..
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If the symptoms of mental illness are warning signs, or beyond that the beginning of how you transcend trauma, what “psychiatric” medications do is actually cause trauma, to the body, and also to the emotions, and so again these social fabrications that everything is wonderful, and if you show signs of making society loose it’s grip on its fantasies that it’s all ship shape (as long as you get the rewards for being brainwashed), then, then you supposedly have a mental illness when not supporting said fantasy, and then you get further traumatized by treatment. And then we can go back to whether trauma creates mental illness, but then you have to see it as a mental illness rather than what it is.
“Sadness” “not being able to concentrate” “supposedly non reality based thoughts” thoughts which in reality are more thoughts than the programming that’s supposed to be attached to the physical (or it’s non reality based supposedly again), or just programming in general (thoughts which aren’t thoughts) which is how often is it NOT even attached to the physical it uses to be objective but just more social constructs such as take a pill and it will heal you, kill the enemy (isn’t he then also supposed to want to kill you and see you as such) etc. etc. “do what the boss says, he’s the authority, or the school or the church…..” Even grief for example, in ways I wonder what is going on, even myself, whether it’s we’ve lost part of ourselves and miss it in others who have gone back to the source, and thus we’re reminded of the love there….. or it’s just a remembering of the value in life, but it’s all transcending to another level, not something to turn off, as if it can be turned off, and that’s what the drugs are doing…. we’re meant to see the value in life, all of it, no matter how we would have wanted it different when it’s completed safe in forever to grow there without interference….. But even something completely labeled as “delusions” or “non reality based” or psychotic” etc. can have more of a poetry or resonance or when looked at can be more reasonable than what’s considered sane, because it relates to thought not to programming, and the craziest thing could have a symbolism that when understood changes a person’s inner ingrained reflexes (because it’s relating to the inside, but as soon as it’s not understood by others they get alarmist and it’s a mental illness, as if we have no insides), change your reflexes by looking at the inside and it changes the future and so is more objective than anything tangible to what’s called reality, while that “reality doesn’t have such a relationship with the meaning of life, time, certainly not the future other than what’s made out to be safety will cause the problem to repeat itself…… Or even just symptoms that these medications aren’t helping, they don’t treat a chemical imbalance, then programming would say that’s anogsognosia, when in reality the anosognosia is not being aware of what the drugs do, or not being ALLOWED to be aware. That’s oppression. Does someone get “psychotic” because of antidepressants that’s a WARNING signal what the trauma is they aren’t supposed to see is from the antidepressants, and the antidepressants could be because someone got on ADHD meds and started having repetitive behaviors which was labeled as yet another “symptom” of a mental illness rather than AGAIN a sign the medications were traumatizing….. All sets of behaviors that really are annoying for society, like the one organism of a group that starts to evolve from the rest (and is in touch with the future needs), that gets targeted for not being part of the program. Not part of the complacent mob. Or when a simple warning light or signal goes on. A smoke alarm, and people turn it off and act like everything is fine, when a fire could be on the loose; or in a car, when you need oil or brake fluid (I don’t drive don’t really know so I’m improvising), but then turn it off and you don’t have that annoying flashing light but the car starts breaking down after awhile. What warning signal are you going to turn off then? The car can’t function anymore. But with “psychiatry” there could be a whole matrix of warning signals all turned off till the next one emerges until the body breaks down. And the real warning signals are made out to be something to turn off while society enabled by psychiatry creates these fake warning signals involving “symptoms,” making society quite paranoid and alarmist. That’s ignoring what the medications are doing, or in the beginning why a person was having “symptoms” which were an attempt the brain and the soul have of warning there’s something going on. Then you have the vehicle damaged in another way when the warning signals weren’t attended to, the response trying to again warn what’s REALLY going on.
And what are these “symptoms” that start the whole domino effect until the vehicle is destroyed. It could be trauma, something they can’t express yet and get no help with understanding the symptoms (can a wound have symptoms also, and not be a disease? If you know what’s hurting you, what’s causing the wound, then you know rather than be unaware to get away from it or make it stop or take other measures) or it could just be someone knows something that’s considered out of bounds. Even at a precognitive level, or what is supposedly impossible to know although it pans out like psychic senses. People tend to turn off, that’s also too much for their “safety” to fit into the norm. And so it can be traumatizing even knowing such things and wanting to find where you can express them, or something on the inside emerging that tries to point out what needs the space to emerge. What needs to be understood at a cognitive level where the “symptoms” are pointing out something’s going on. Whatever is going on, the “psychiatric symptoms” could be what the soul and brain do to transcend trauma, which is hardly a disease, but then you add psychiatric drugs and more trauma, yeah, you’re going to have the brain disabled, all of the symptoms, and these ARE symptoms (symptoms of a disease, not a wound, a wound isn’t a disease) as you quoted from Breggin: “symptoms similar to those of someone with a traumatic brain injury after one month on these drugs. After a few months, individuals will exhibit a limited repertoire of verbal, emotional and behavioural responses. Frequently misdiagnosed as âmental illnessâ, these manifestations are due to the personâs drug-induced cognitive disability: a chronic brain impairment directly attributed to their psychiatric prescription (Breggin, P. (2012).” and then you have the stuff labeled as symptoms (of a disease rather than trauma needing attention or a wound) which are the warning signals, the brain and the soul trying to get away from, transcend the trauma, to warn the self something is going on, and that’s then labeled as the disease, rather than………
And the most insane thing is how they try to make out they are tending to emotional wounds, or such trauma, and then in reality traumatize the brain (and the emotions themselves whose expression is made out to be a disease), all while saying they are treating trauma……
Like creating a chemical imbalance saying they are treating one, and then like you said, the disabling of the brain can be seen as negative symptoms of say “schizophrenia” or any of the “diseases” that a person can’t take care of themselves anymore ( I wonder what the rising costs are, someone on usually 1000 dollars of medications, and then the extra money from the state to be warehoused in foster care like labrats, is that like $4000 a month? 3000? 5000? 2000? along with their advertising, the everything of people maintaining this on all sides, which often makes out it’s charitable and Hollywood chimes in with their “celebrities”… how many people have ended up shuffling around such?)……. and then what is any dissent from that? ODD, OCD, anogsognosia (which I already mentioned), non compliance, being “weird”, being ridiculed, being shunned, bizarre alarmist ideas others have along with totally unreality based conclusions gossip and propaganda……… and you’re supposed to want to be part of such a “society” in order to be “functional” safe” and “sane”!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
While the edit function is still on, as I was doing dishes thinking about how much this all costs. If there’s just 1,000,000 people that cost the government 1,000 dollars (often the “meds” alone are that much, I don’t know how much the “gov” pays for that but…..) that’s one billion. Add everything else, then estimate the loss of intelligence, functionality, ingenuity, evolutionary value with the disabling of natural functions of the brain, and added to that the phobia in society against anything that’s not part of the programmed norm adding to this loss with the amount of people who aren’t even taking disabling controlled substances called psychiatric drugs but still turn off part of their brain, their self….are controlled by fear (and social norms and lobbying) and ignore the warning signals………… are we at a Trillion yet?
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Dear J Munro, all the years I’ve been going through what I’ve been going through, I have frequented drop in centers for marginalized, or people with a mental health label. I have to a bit stop myself from going florid would I starts to say what I’ve seen regarding what you’ve mentioned regarding “deep muddy waters,” and then also how both you and your husband had started giving in to the system, because things got so bad, and you didn’t know it was the “medications.” Somehow you got out, and the truth of what was going on dawned through. What I’ve seen in drop in centers though, over years and years of encountering very very human people is heart breaking. I’m just glad you got away from such “treatment.”
As is the case to often all over the place, workers at drop in centers can be TERRIBLY misinformed regarding medications, especially when they are given to people already labeled as being disabled. All they see is withdrawal symptoms would someone want to get off of what’s disabling them, and then people that remain compliant are rewarded, just like you see in any environment where you get a pat on the head for being part of the gang. It was shocking for me, what happened when I simply mentioned people getting off of their medications. Someone on antidepressants had come to the head of one drop in center, trying to get off of them and all she could do was cry, which was the head’s reason to not even have any group to help people (as if everyone would have such a reaction, the person went back on the meds, I donât know how a group helping people would disrupt THAT, but the head was on antidepressants I found out). Other than that it was a nice lady, but she herself was on antidepressants, her children also, her husband had committed suicide, and then there was no mention why HE would have done that, or the environment etc. A bit of stuff going on in the background here. As you see, I start going on about this and it gets florid. Other workers, you couldn’t get them to even acknowledge what withdrawal symptoms had to do with it, or that the medications caused the chemical imbalance which hadn’t existed before “treatment” by any discernible disease. etc. etc. Some workers of course were on “medications” and couldn’t get off of them but to me clearly depicted behavior that would explain their problems, and their addiction to a disabled brain. I couldnât get them to be articulate beyond a certain point, regarding all sorts of stuff. I got one lady off who was a secretary, and she had done this quietly, I think first denying it, and then she left the place. She had gotten herself off of everything, and just said something about the “government,” and that she wasn’t going to take a bunch of stuff they paid for or something to that extent. At that drop in center there were people stuck in the system, even got rewards for playing the part of a poor helpless sort of pet of the system, until they really expressed what was going on. One guy who everyone thought the cutest, and would make little paintings with cute sayings on it was adored by everyone, but then one day he wasn’t so nice. He must have had irritable bowl syndrome from the 1000 dollars of meds he was on, which is easy to look up or know, and he actually had erupted, I think with the anger, frustration, oppression of what at one moment the feeling of that was, and actually taken a bowl movement out of his pants and thrown it at the wall or something. He of course was simply barred from the art room, no one ever looked into why he would do that, there was only extreme gossip regarding him. I could go on and on. And I’m not condoning throwing your sh@#$@#()t at the walls, there just was absolutely no perspective on it, and anyone a bit enlightened would start to see further. You disable someone’s brain from even knowing what’s going on, tell them lies about chemical imbalances not saying the only real proof beyond that con job is the drugs cause chemical imbalance by disabling natural functions of the brain, and then the abusers are suddenly heroes taking care of these poor victims while they are part of the system abusing them and keeping them down. It’s hair raising, just to see that, just to see how brainwashed people are. At another drop in center, where it was better in ways, but not too much, there were numerous people who would come there who some time in their life years and years ago had had an extreme emotional reaction, a normal reaction to something in their life. Whether this played out in a fantasy for a day, or just they themselves feeling there was something wrong with them, they ended up somehow being predatory to the mental health system, and went from point A to B to C to D until they for the rest of their life ended up in foster care facilities with nothing to do the rest of the day but go to a drop in center. Who knows how they’d been used as lab rats for some, as the drug companies always said, elusive chemical imbalance they were sure they would find, they had compelling evidence, they were making headway, the brain is a very complex organ etc. etc.. I would try to talk to these people, but there was no ability for them to even realize what really happened, how there was never any real understanding of what had happened to them years ago, or they maybe didn’t even really remember other than that they had been deemed mentally ill. And none of them had any real symptoms at all anywhere anymore, other than they thought they couldn’t take care of themselves, or were so doped up they wouldn’t be able to. Or theyâd have their medications changed, who knows why, maybe they said the wrong thing to the psychiatrist about who knows what like âI get anxious when I hear the news,â and so one lady suddenly was falling asleep all the time, because of the meds, somehow this had been resolved, I donâ t know how. At that drop in center there had been a head of it that would understand the truth, but I have to stop going on about other things there that were ridiculous or add two more pages….. People that had simply given up on life, didn’t have any symptoms anymore, but acted like good little children, a bit comparable to obeying church rules or what have you I can’t think of to make comparisons with (going to school every day, watching the same movies and TV everyone else does?)….. and went around circles believing…….like actors playing a role, but not even one that had any real meaning……. One can only wonder what a percentage of the “success” stories the system puts out come from such people.
“muddy waters” and I’m only really taking this lightly what I’ve shared….
Then there are the stories of the people that didn’t make it. The mental health system would say they need more ability to force treat people, more research along the same lines where their ideology hasn’t worked out, but the “ideology” sounds good. “Chemical imbalance,” lets forget that the drugs cause that, and that’s science, but lets make out we’ll find it in the disease, which has never emerged yet. A friend of mine who I knew for years, saw her struggle trying to find equilibrium. She could be fine for years, even have a job, a house, a car, friends. Then something would erupt. She just wanted to be normal and it wasn’t working. She had come from a tumultuous family where the father was violent towards the mother, and I’ve detailed in another post how the mother then tried to coach her that the father had sexually molested her, and a “therapist” also, who could just put forth his suspicions. It turned out it was during a time when she was on a boat trip with the father and a sailor had sexually molested her, but for years, again the muddy waters. And of all things, the stuff with “the system” started when she went to college. From what she told me all that was going on was that she was kissing a boy in the halls, and a friend of her father’s, who was a professor, saw her, and called him up, and they had her committed. The father, mind you, was a notorious womanizer, actually. The poor girl ended up being carted around for a year in different institutions, which the rest of her life seemed to be exposing what that does to one. FOR A YEAR because she had been kissing a boy in the halls, and some teacher thought this shows some sign of who knows what, to have that turn into a whole faction of other “professionals” making up who-knows-whats for a whole year. There was then the anger against the system, the loss of understanding regarding how the “medications” kept her from finding equilibrium and the abject fear of what happens when she would lose it, and then the part of her that just wanted to be normal. I know what it’s like, you look at everyone else being able to be a cog in the wheel, part of the machinery, and then you see how you’ve failed, until you just finally start seeing what’s really going on despite that like 95 or 99% of the people “making it” are a bit too much akin to androids, and you could get them to believe anything just as long as they get rewards from the system, regardless of science, truth, real insight etc. Lilly would say she just wanted to be normal. A fantasy she couldn’t let go of. https://www.lifestorynet.com/obituaries/lisbeth-lilly-lipke.29513#memories And when you read her obituary, when it says: â.We thank all of you, especially those who were so present with Lilly this past year and month. You know who you are and no words can adequately convey our gratitude for your kindness and love.â those actually are the people that once again had her committed, force committed into an asylum, into a situation that had caused the problems, and I had warned them what might happen, that they would lose her, and had tried to state clearly regarding the science of what was going on. In fact, she had fled her house. They had invited me and her for tea and some cake, because they wanted to confront her, they got us into their house, then asked me to leave because they wanted toâŚ.. I said that was funny (they had lied to me) said I wouldnât do that, and left. I waited a few minutes, and she came BOUNDING across the street in terror, tried to get away on my bike which was locked, instead pushed down on the pedals so hard she broke her achilles tendon, and a sort of chase scene ensued. They invaded her house, acted like eager pundits to get rewards, called her case manager, and then I had enough of it, called to THAT house where one of those âfriendsâ answered, and said that Lilly clearly didnât want them in her house, and if they didnât leave I would call the police. Then the lady who had answered the phone said in a sarcastic tone: âOh, would youâŚ..?â And I knew theyâd lay a whole schpiel on the police. So I never called the police. But then I was passing her house, and the police were there, the whole dark cloud around it. Lilly of course by then quite disassociated emotionally from what was going on, talking to the police, saw me, and said to a police man who I was, and that I was a really nice person. The policeman then told me to âmove onâ or Iâd be arrested. I asked whether I could ask him why, and he said I would be disrupting an investigation. So, I went home, and there actually called non emergency police to tell them the facts, of how people had trespassed into her house, etc. the police at the non emergency desk then told me she had been doing things which she hadnât. TOTALLY DIFFERENT POLICE also. They said she had been taking off her clothes in public. Turns out later that wasnât true, but as soon as she FLED these âfriends,â the FIRST THING one of them said is that she was taking off her clothes, running around naked. Apparently, they then feel free to tell the police this, which is a lie. And I have to say that I havenât really heard ANY stories regarding someone being committed where there isnât such going on, whether much more minimal or worse. This âcouldâ happen so it is happeningâŚ. And people have done, and do this to me. ADDED to that, when she was in the asylum, because her achilles tendon was ripped, her leg was swollen up to the knee, and in a âmedicalâ setting they NEVER even looked at it. DESPITE it was swollen to the knee. In a medical setting! The result was that when she got out, she couldnât walk properly anymore. But they did actually drug her up so that when she was feeling âniceâ enough to convince them she was OK (she actually told me later she knew how to do this), I was told she wouldnât even remember if she had taken her pills or not. I never asked why she was supposed toâŚâŚ In the beginning her friends were all coming at me, like I was stupid or impossible, and I was told: âLillyâs not taking her medications,â and I replied: âThey donât work scientifically or statistically.â I should have said something regarding whether they could help her get OFF of them, say titrate etc. And later one of them actually AGREED with me that the pills only make things worse, YET they had her committed. Her mother ALSO, who said sheâd looked into it and the only way, according to her, Lilly could be helped was in a very expensive place, like for Hollywood people, and they couldnât afford that. Instead she AGAIN had her daughter committed. And it was a whole GROUP of people, if they had collectively actually cared to read the material regarding the âmedicationsâ the âtreatment;â how to help someone that the treatment hadnât worked for, how to help them would they want to get off of said âtreatment,â had allowed Lilly to just say whatever was going on instead of scaring her that ended up being what it wasâŚâŚ. It was a whole group of people, many of the agreeing regarding the âmedications,â what might have happened where they not aggressively against and condoning violence AGAINST the truth when it wasnât convenient to them? The last time I talked with her, before she committed suicide, she showed me how she couldnât sit still, and her arm would start shaking, then told me how the psychiatrist at the institution had said: âYou either take this, and that and that, or youâre not getting out of here.â and so she was on a whole cocktailâŚ..Old story, whole history of what CAUSED the problems they were supposedly fixingâŚ.. A different friend of hers I ran into a few times walking his dog a few years ago told me she had been to him, had gone to a doctor, and the doctor said they couldnât fix her achilles tendon anymore. The friend had tried to tell her that she should try another doctor, but she had become so despondent by thenâŚâŚ
She told me that when they confronted her, having to deal with all of such, she had told them she was the second coming. What does A Course in Miracles say regarding the second coming? One of her âfriendsâ being someone who said she liked A Course in Miracles, and when I had some minor critique of it wouldnât hear it: âThe old view of the Second Coming saw evil as a real force with a terrible energy of its own, a will in opposition to God, a will which had to be combated and overcome. The Course, in seeing the Second Coming as the correction of mistakes, does not see evil as a real force. Darkness is not a thing, a substance, it is merely the absence of light.â âthe Second Coming is the return of our awareness of our true Self. â You can do a google search with âWhat does A Course in Miracles say about the second coming,â and you get all sorts of replies akin. Some guy who was supposed to be so âChristianâ teaching in a âChristianâ college immediately said he would call the police, etc. Later, during the chase scene, when I told him that they were harassing her, he actually tried to threaten me with calling the police, and I asked him for what, telling the truth, than he got dramatic and told me to stop⌠Stop with what? Telling the truth? That being BEFORE I found out they lied to the policeâŚâŚ
Well, and so whatâs the second coming? One day, I wanted to go to the beach and thought I would ask Lilly to take us, since she had a car, then within a short time she called me talking about going to the beach, that we had a conversation about this. I didnât disqualify that I had thought about it as a conversation, but she responded a bit tragic, as if that was too muchâŚ..
I was involved with yet ANOTHER âspiritualâ healing group, and beforehand thought Iâd contact Lilly, again in my mind. Not even thinking about what I just shared. And THAT group was about near death experience stuff, so I thought Iâd ask Lilly what Heaven was like. She told me that the good things remain, it grows. I imagine like the flowers each Spring. The grow, the remain, become part of foreverâŚâŚ. They donât flush down the whateverâŚâŚâŚ
âthe second coming,â that was put in an asylum for saying soâŚâŚâŚ.
Another friend of mine, who is stuck in the system had called me up: âLilly committed suicide,â and I said and thought: âSheâs not dead, sheâs just not in the mental health system anymore,â and then, after that brief call, I took a wand I had, waved it in the air, and there was a holographic image of Lilly, and she wanted to know how I did that. I didnât reply but with a dimple, and I demuredâŚ..
How that works it ways through the consciousness. Sometimes I thought that she had somehow reanimated the body, after it was pronounced dead, and there was this wonderful community that allowed her to survive, like a conduit showing thereâs another way. Consequently, sometimes I saw her there, when probably it was her spirit body, and didnât find it necessary to separate that from the physical, so thought thatâŚâŚ.. Obviously it wasnât necessary for me to see herâŚ. But that doesnât mean resurrections donât occur, even on THIS earth⌅
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I don’t even know what to say about this. Treatment for schizophrenia statistically in the long run makes things worse. Now they find it feasible to listen to some machine that is 90% of the time wrong so what is this going to do the whole epidemic they’ve been making, and thus more schizophrenics because of more treatment and then they’re going to get more drastic trying to prevent all of this by causing more of it? And then when they bleep in hearing voices this more accurate but does that say about society? Aren’t hearing voices something that goes on inside yourself or you’re trying to process something ,God forbid. No you can’t process anything you have to be told what stuff is for example one is supposed to believe all this and not look at how ridiculous this is all going on about 90% accuracy on a machine for a disease that basically is fictitional in ways, where the treatment causes more of the problem… Just add concepts such as drugs artificial intelligence and voila…… Oh this is feasible…. !? We’re making headway. There’s compelling evidence that……
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After reading the last comment of mine, it being posted I think I need to clean that up.
My point was that itâs like a lobbyistâs dream when the treatment they are promoting is hidden to be statistically in correlation with the spike of the problem. When you donât tell people that the medications cause chemical imbalance, but tell them that they treat a chemical imbalance to make them keep taking the medication, then youâve hidden whatâs really going on. And then they add on the untruth that itâs like diabetes medications. Or any other medications that actually does treat scientifically a chemical imbalance rather than causing one to suppress âsymptoms,â of whatâs labeled as a psychiatric condition. If short term, the brain disabling affect of causing a chemical imbalance suppresses symptoms, this trumps the fact that in the long run, the chemical imbalance brought on by the medications makes everything worse. And then people become more and more paranoid of any symptoms of mental illness, because of the spike. In themselves and in others. The media chimes in and highlights bad cases, often people that already were treated in a way in correlation with the problem to say that that means more treatment rather than what science and statistics show. They fail to see the difference between what the medications cause and what life itself causes. And then people who at first had what life causes end up having what the medications cause, and so people think itâs all part of the same ball game, when in reality without the medications added thereâs more recovery of what life was causing. Statistics show that, but not if you say that people are discovering they have chemical imbalances to excuse giving them one with treatment, and lie to them otherwise they wonât continue treatment.
And people are totally brainwashed, their first knee jerk reaction, if not enlightened, is to believe what correlates with the spike of the problem, what correlates with causing the paranoia they have, that this is how to get it to stop. And they think they have to implement that, police it, convince others, politically get the system to be able to force treat others.
And these violent acts of supposedly âuntreatedâ mental health patients werenât occurring BEFORE they were âtreatedâ to any degree comparable to whatâs also become a whole spike. Cat has nicely shared studies that prove correlation, simply with the medications. I donât think that was there before the implementation, and YET itâs mainly made out to be what would stop it, when thatâs AGAIN the same series of 1) create short term suppression of symptoms 2) say itâs treating a chemical imbalance while knowing itâs doing the opposite 3) profit off of the phobia when things get worse, which correlates with the âmedicationsâ not the âdisease.â 4) fill corporate media with scare tactics, while suppressing those that are part of the statistics that recover without âmedicationsâ while without the âmedsâ thereâs more recoveryâŚ. 5) when putting a person on medications make sure it falls under medical confidentiality, so that one canât really determine causality.
Can you imagine the same going on with say heart medications, or any other where thereâs compelling evidence there could be a causal link, but the information is withheld. I actually a bit cringe using the word âcompellingâ because how often this was used all the years the drug companies made out they would find proof thereâs the chemical imbalance going on that their drugs fix, but they havenât been able to. THAT they will look into and find nothing, but the other side they donât even consider⌅
We always have to hear stories of how this drug helped so and so, while at the same time, someone who got off of their drug often has to do it without telling the psychiatrist, or their family, and thus falls off of the radar. Also the whole spectrum of treatments that arenât drug related, or arenât given WITH drugs, or could be INSTEAD, this isnât even really offered, so no one really knows what would have happened to the cherry picked minority where the drugs have helped, one doesnât know if something else would have helped them, and then beyond that the drugs are still available. Which is another thing, we canât speak the scientific truth or we are keeping people from their drugs, we are saying all drugs are bad, we are saying psychiatric drugs donât work. No, we are honoring science. Logic would say there would be less, it also says there would be more recovery if different methods were available, certainly methods that correlate more with recovery in the long term, and then the drugs are still there. But one canât say all of that without it being put forth that then we arenât doing anything. A person is considered non compliant, or just not valued for their input when they havenât gone the drug route. How many people, given how the system works, stopped taking the mediation without their psychiatrist knowing it, and THEN he found them showing signs of recovery? And then they got out of the system. Or they just stopped going to see the psychiatrist. Robert Whitaker just did an interview where Courteny Harding revealed that EXACTLY what I said was going on with many of those who had recovered and gone off of their meds, because they at first didnât want to say they had, then showed them drawers full of medications they had never taken, but had picked up at the pharmacy because the âcommunityâ would otherwise have problems. If she hadnât been able to hire people who knew how to relate to those that had recovered, who made them feel comfortable enough to confide, without such sensitivity this information wouldnât have turned up. How often is that going on where the information remains hidden?
Thatâs one of the first things police ask you, because Iâve had them ask me, whether Iâm taking âmedications.â I lose track of how many times people just say: âheâs crazy.â People I donât even know. Iâm also not ever supposed to have recovered, you know, from things that happened decades ago. I was just riding my bike around, once, someplace I used to go, and I hear: âheâs crazy!â and then âHe saw usâŚâŚ.â as if Iâm some target for the same âentertainmentâ people go to a spook house for. For the most part, they are quite totally out of their minds. I had a bad tooth infection, it actually became abscessed, and had been that way for a couple of years, I was stubborn about it being healed with alternative methods or a miracle. Found that colloidal silver kept it at bay, although it was holding me back. Then I found a healer lady Carol Everett Healing Sanctuary and following her instructions within 3 months it wasnât holding me back anymore, although it showed up in x-rays for a couple of years still, but since is gone, which is supposedly impossible. But in the interim, I was going to a church, and was talking in store with the store keeper about Jesus. And I was of course rather animated about it. Iâm not all that gun ho about Jesus, by the way, because there ARE others, and THEY have helped me more, but Jesus is part of it. But there are others who didnât play media games becoming âthe saviorâ and making alliances with powers in the Universe to resurrect them, as if escaping the situation and sharing miracles someplace else would be a failure, which it wouldnât have been, and would express forgiveness in a higher way, because they heâd still have the body nature gave him, and deal with the challenge of how it responds, and how it heals. Anyhow, I was going on about Jesus. A lady from church says to a child with her: âheâs crazy.â I just ignored it. You hear this so often itâs not worth responding to. Then, during a church service, when I was going through stuff, but just myself an non violent, she gets up before the service is over and says, as if SHE knows and other should heed her: âHEâS CRAZY.â I donât know who this lady is at all, and then looking through the psychology department where my father taught and I got my bachelorâs degree in music, sheâs a psychology teacher there. In the meantime, Iâve found out stuff regarding psychology she wouldnât learn academically, certainly didnât who insight, the tooth has healedâŚâŚ
The wheat from the ChaffâŚâŚâŚ.. And thereâs A LOT of chaff, itâs not really fair to compare that to wheatâŚâŚ. I donât think wheat has such a problem, ButâŚ. Why I would want to be part of such a âsocietyâŚâŚ.â Or think that thereâs nothing beyond it, that Iâve failed otherwiseâŚ..
Birdsong, don’t worry about me getting lost in the fourth dimension, that’s impossible. That doesn’t happen there, no loss, no guilt, no loss in giving etc….. It would be more thinking I can get lost there that causes problems…..
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Oh birdsong you didn’t need to be clearer. If I had gone one step further it would have been thinking you meant that the drug companies should stop with their games, how to get things approved: what their intentions are. The point being one gets lost in such a swamp of convoluted….. When the lobbyist becomes the supposed authority, and what’s the difference? Is it ideology or a paycheck? Or is it called for me? And who is pulling the strings? Just like trying to talk with somebody who has been all indoctrinated with a whole repertoire of responses to insist that the planet is flat or that the sun revolves around the Earth. Why? Because then whatever outfit promotes such ideology can sell their stuff. Chemical imbalances that the treatment causes which is said to alleviate what it causes. And then you have more of the problem. And so when there’s statistics that shows that there’s rising problems and it’s become critical there’s an epidemic then we need more of what causes it: not only the chemical imbalance (that the drugs cause: the treatment not the supposed disease) also the paranoia in society. Make the whole populous alarmist about something and there you go: they’re paranoid fixated…. There’s a whole war going on against natural functions of the brain. Intelligence….. This society is so full of believing it needs to control people with fear whether it’s the penal system militaries the school system handing out grades religions talking about how money who knows what else. And it trains people to do such, you end up with a select group of people so sociopath that the only winning they see left is dowsing the population to be controlled by them whether it’s psychiatric drugs or other forms of mind control. Who is the guy that was actually on Charlie Rose going on about how you would stop homelessness if you put that population on psychiatric drugs or other such nonsense? There’s no reason they’re homeless you just dope them up and make them more docile and able to be mind controlled. They’re going to go in the factories feed consumerism and help destroy the rest of the planet with pollution etc. And the people pulling his strings are worse except that he thinks he needs them. That winning is ditching their own humanity by trying to destroy it in others. While this comment has the option to edit it I had to go look and that I guess was E Torrey Fuller promoting this idea that you could drug up all the homeless people and they’d be all functional. You know let’s just ignore the whole history of what such controlled substances have done and make up a new fantasy and people think oh yeah. I guess he wasn’t in Charlie Rose’s brain series but that’s also just a bunch of lobbyists actually. You get that all over the place in corporate media of course not just the mental health system what you hear about any topic regarding any of what people are supposed to be controlled with regarding fear. After a certain point you are just completely lied to basically and all they have to do is find some angle to make a mental construct to mislead you with……. Maybe I should listen to Charlie Rose and his brain series which came out before he was basically fired because of the me too movement but yeah so that’s still out there like it’s something. Maybe I should listen to it but I never watch the news either….so much stuff I just don’t even believe it. I guess if I watched Charlie Rose brain series I’d have to take out a notepad to start writing down all the convolute everything….. Because otherwise I probably would get totally lost trying to remember it all, it’s totally overwhelming. I mean you have to act like you’re taking a college class where you have to keep track of how much they’re lying to you and take the same kind of notes you would take to see what somebody is saying when it’s actually scientific but here you have to keep track of….. And it’s all hidden under we know we’re causing a chemical imbalance but if you don’t say it’s treating one then the people won’t take the medications, which only work in the short term that’s all you have long-term everything gets worse but you’re also ignoring along with every cause of chemical imbalance not treated it, and yeah there’s way more mental illness because we’re causing this chemical imbalance which we can’t tell people but that’s just that it is emerging in society it wasn’t being treated before although there is more disability…. Incredibly incoherent other than how it deceives people while everything is getting worse in the long run for them to believe that what caused the problem is going to fix it….. Then there’s more of the problem so you can cherry pick the minority that it is working for as if that’s going to fix it when it has caused the spike instead. Well people get more fearful and more moralistic…… I have to stop now in a minute I can’t edit anymore
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And thank YOU for writing this blog. Don’t stop. It’s good. And I’m sure, or know beyond needing to, that many of us are thankful you gave us a place where we could feel safe, and be safe to know our own stories……
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Birdsong, I’m glad you got off Welbutrin. I still am “recovering
from someone making out he’s an authority being a psychiatrist, comes in here, a blog where a lady very honestly details how she wanted to take her own life because of the side effects of Xanax, and got out of it despite a doctor that wouldn’t listen; and this other “authority” says we got it all wrong (SIC added by me):”Your [SIC] making a lot of assumptions. Simply put this lady was given Xanax instead of SSRI trials which was a mistake. Thatâs the only conclusion you can make not what you are going on about”. THAT is a professional? He doesn’t see this is about Xanax toxicity that shouldn’t have happened, and the rest of it I already stated and would have to repeat, such as he doesn’t KNOW why she went to see a psychiatrist to begin with, who he WASN’T; so he determining whether or what type of drug she should have had is impossible. Unprofessional. Not what this blog is about. She has come back and pointed out there’s a whole community dealing with this problem YET, after years of knowing how dangerous this drug is, and it’s STILL handed out like candy: Benzo Buddies and BIC she mentioned as Internet sites. She also said that people go to a psychiatrist for a reason, and that being that she was under considerable stress, the psychiatrist posting here had already decided she was being treated for anxiety (no sir, the Xanax caused the extreme anxiety), doles out âinformationâ regarding what supposedly would have helped for what he doesn’t know was going on and was wrong regarding. The only conclusions we could make (he says) was that she was supposed to be on treatment for something, that since he mentioned the treatment has had several severe warnings itself regarding, people have had to rebute or question data he shares, and why he shared them wasn’t why she [who wrote the blog and wasn’t asking for another diagnosis or prescription] went to a psychiatrist to begin with.
It’s quite predatory when people start talking about severely disturbing things to have someone pop up with answers, in this case inappropriately, have that not phase them, and then start sharing data that’s questionable or inaccurate regarding diagnosis they were never asked to make and even would one believe such doesn’t apply in this case, add catch phrases, deny science, dismiss certain brands of trials if they don’t show the data wanted, display personal attacks in the form of straw man arguments, saying both you and Steve (and probably more, who can keep track of it) said things you never did……..
Some of us are actually trying to keep track of the truth!
Just an example of how OVERLOADING such behavior is, when you wrote: “Stopping the crap was my idea.” in reading that at first, and the second time as well, I thought of course she’s (or heâs) referring to what she thought that the psychiatrist would have EVER prescribed that, “Stopping the crap” having taken on a dual meaning and I went down a layer regarding what it could mean, that such disruptive stuff shouldn’t have been prescribed: that when he said, as you detail here :”But get this: the prescribing psychiatrist, who was very âwell-respectedâ, NEVER MADE THE CONNECTION. He looked at me in amazement while saying, âYou are a different personâ, which I was. He said heâd never seen it happen to anyone before.” I thought, of course, she thought in general stop the crap, stop handing stuff out like that, but you meant it was YOUR idea to stop with the medications, and he had never seen that with anyone else. Added to that you had to take yourself off before telling him, and only then could he see. I mean, it would have been something to FIRST ask him, hear the negative response, then take yourself off, and then what? Which might not even have been safe given the situation, because you can see again how defensive such people can get, From this blog also.
And the poor dog that was put on antidepressants….the one a friend of mine couldn’t handle and brought back to the pound. I think she stated that he tried to bite her, or had (she was giving him a bath, which one can only wonder why she would even try that with a dog), but it was a really nice lady. Always took in underdogs, although this really was a dog, but on antidepressants she couldn’t deal with it. I have to say I felt it around me, from the other dimension, where everything can happen, and so much of it has, I just have to learn one can’t talk about such with too many people. Let alone too many psychiatrists. It’s the science of thought, and I mean science. And so I had a whole so many page of impossible stuff that has happened that I felt was too much (Elsa the lioness that appeared out of the fourth dimension when I was doing the yoga pose the tree at a bus stop, that no longer is there and informing a lady waiting where they moved it that they put up a fence and took the shelter away because maybe homeless people would hang out there and thus they moved the stop I realized later she was an angel among us, and then before they took the bus stop away from that area a whole flock of seagulls murmured perfectly each of them catching a bread pellet the whole flock staying in flight to catch each pellet one by one, whatâs called Indian file, pellets I had made from bread that had been discarded and I kept for no reason until there was a reason or it happened, and where I had picked it up miles across the city ended up being a place I teleported away from having to cross there at a stoplight, when I stepped so carefully to avoid slipping on the ice that there was no fear to do something good or be chastised (I do use yaktrax and such now and did then mostly) ending up with one gentle step on the other side of the building, around the area where every time I needed to escape rationality of limitations Iâd play with a Mozart aria and the singer who had reincarnated and died since again appeared out of nowhere like Elsa, and so many I lose track, the earth does have a history that speaks and the wave patterns shown in the double list experiment to become particles emerge in dreamtime to show life always had meaning, and then most recently along with the lady at the portal area where they moved the bus stop another being regarding what touches in with the fourth dimension when you let go of fear appearedâŚ. And thus were pages I donât know where they went, apparently I didnât even save them, although I could keep adding to that supposed word salad forever⌅) thought the science of thoughtâŚ.. THAT is something different than turning off the physical mechanism of thought called the brain, akin to turning off a warning signal, such as a smoke alarm or when the car says something etc. etc. when the warning is too much for whoever would have to deal with waking up instead, to thought.
(Elsa the lioness that appeared out of the fourth dimension
when I was doing the yoga pose
the tree
at a bus stop, that
no longer is there
and informing
a lady waiting where they moved it
that they put up a fence
and took the shelter away
because maybe homeless people would hang out there
and thus they moved the stop
I realized later she was an angel among us,
and then
before they took the bus stop away from that area
a whole flock of seagulls murmured
perfectly
each of them catching a bread pellet
the whole flock staying in flight
to catch each pellet
one by one,
whatâs called Indian file,
pellets I had made
from bread that had been discarded
and I kept for
no reason
until there was a reason
or it happened, and
where I had picked it up
miles across the city
ended up being a place I teleported away
from having to cross there at a stoplight,
when I stepped
so carefully
to avoid
slipping on the ice
that there was no fear
to do something good
or be chastized
ending up
with one gentle step
on the other side of the building,
around the area where
every time I needed to escape rationality of limitations
I would play with a Mozart aria
and the singer
who had reincarnated and died since
again appeared
out of nowhere
like Elsa,
and so many
I lose track,
the earth
does have a history that speaks
and the wave patterns
shown in the double list experiment
to become particles
emerge in dreamtime
to show life always had meaning,
and then most recently
along with the lady
at the portal area
where they moved the bus stop
another being
regarding
what touches in with the fourth dimension
when you let go of fear appearedâŚ.
And thus were pages
I donât know where they went, apparently
I didnât even save them, although
I could keep adding to this
supposed word salad
forever⌅)
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I wonder what the conclusion is regarding this statement:
“One hundred thirty-three people met their own needs (79%). They once had regressed to the point where they were unable to brush their teeth, comb their hair, or use a fork. Many even threw off their clothes, smeared feces on walls, and spoke animal gibberish. Now they were able to pay bills, cook, and clean, generally take care of themselves, and often others.”
That letting them out of the asylum, giving them the space to decide THEMSELVES whether the medications work (even though later it’s stated that many of them acted like they were still taking the meds, and only confided the truth later, while showing drawers full of pills they never had taken but picked up so the “community” wouldn’t freak out), not having to deal with sadistic psychiatrists and nurses (I’ve at a drop in center had the same experience, a bit, when you can’t actually state the truth regarding statistics or scientific truth regarding what happens off meds, here the psychiatrists seem to have gotten almost belligerent, if not, saying that instead those people had affective disorders when they recovered)… obviously ALL of that and more, but it’s quite dramatic when it seems that instead of helping them the Thorazine made them incapable of taking care of themselves, etc.
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registeredforthissite I really am amazed, in a good sense, that you can read such blogs, as Lieberman and the nurse, I avoid such places as I would avoid paralyses, actually. To read such stuff, and see how completely clueless and brainwashed some people can be….. it makes you [me, one] wonder whether one can do or say anything except pray for a miracle, not that that’s impossible but there I end up feeling helpless reading such…… Lieberman, who can’t even process scientific data, corrupts, true statistics and scientific results, then when what he advocates, enforces and prescribes, often AGAINST the will of the vulnerable people forced to adhere or be arrested and forced “treated,” when this correlates with the lack of recovery, the disability, the spike in the problem, the epidemic the TRUE results are; then he talks about them being infirm. WHO exactly is non reality based? Who is impossibly showing signs of having infirmity? Who is it no one can convince he’s unaware of what’s going on?
WELL! Looking at the twitter site regarding him, it seems, after getting numerous awards, all sorts of highly esteemed academic positions, he was outed as being quite racist, and then colleagues of him reported he had shown such signs the whole time. How much money was poured into this racist man, the whole time? Someone purporting that schizophrenia also is genetic? And then these “trials” showing that the newer drugs are so effective, where they took “schizophrenics” already addicted to antipsychotics, took half of them off, put them in the control group where they of course got withdrawal symptoms listed as showing signs of the disease instead, the non control group then getting another drug close enough to what they were addicted to that they didn’t get withdrawal symptoms listed as more not showing signs of the disease, and THAT was supposed to “prove” the drugs were effective. Beyond this, they didn’t note how many of those who were said to be helped by the newer drugs before the two year or so trial was over had gotten off of them, nor did they look at long term results for those who at first were said to have symptoms of the disease but later recovered without going back on said medications…..
That someone, racist the whole time, can put forth schizophrenia is genetic, get THAT much money with his cohorts to corrupt science, be able to advocate force treating people, have the legal profession and the police back this up…..
Years and years ago, there was an article from Satz in the BMJ saying that a psychiatric patient should be able to get a restraining order against their psychiatrist, given the proven damage such “treatments” cause. I starting responding to that article, and met a really nice person who had been treated such, and she was amazed at me that I could even read and respond to what such people, psychiatrists etc. were saying. She had gone into an asylum, regarding childhood sexual abuse, upon being advised to. The result was that she was so drugged up she became catatonic, and it would take her like a day to be able to decipher what such a statement by a psychiatrist or so was really saying. Then she tried to become a nurse, she AGAIN couldn’t express her experiences regarding antidepressants in class to become a nurse, or she was harassed and suppressed at every turn, she told me one person was so belligerent she was sure she would have physically assaulted her, was she allowed to…. This lady was the friend I made: https://www.amazon.com/Ranting-Out-Devil-Traumatization-Transformation/dp/1904697445 And then all over the place just being alive and relating to human beings rather than being indoctrinated by said media blip, simply talking about reality what I encounter. A lady who was promised a job here in my city from Ukraine, and then had two children, was a very good mother, but the paperwork for her status as well as the job didn’t fall through, she had to deal with that, take care of her children, and some social workers came along and noticed her house keeping didn’t compare with something you see on TV, or who knows what would have found approval, and of course this lady was affected by what happened to her, but still a very good mother, then the social workers proposed antidepressants, and the poor lady, whose mother was a nurse, said what she knew regarding such, given her mother knew the truth….. the social workers made a report exaggerating everything, and one can only question if this poor lady hadn’t said the truth regarding antidepressants whether there would have been a less discriminative response (I’ve encountered the same nonsense in this city from such maniacs, although they couldn’t really get to me, couldn’t have me committed etc. but EVERYTHING can be misinterpreted EVERYTHING, as soon as they think someone isn’t being compliant to their idea of a indoctrinated discriminatory evaluation) and the poor lady’s CHILDREN were taken away, put in foster care. The local media, the local newspaper also had a whole story about her, AGAIN exaggerating EVERYTHING. I never read it, but talked to someone who went on about it as if it was the truth. He also thinks anyone not inducted into his Jesus cult won’t get entrance to “Heaven” and that “God” gave “Israel” to the Jews, as part of “Christianity.” But there you go….. Another girl worker at a coffee house could tell me how she had to get out of her parent’s house because antidepressants they wouldn’t allow her to stop taking were making her violent, and they wouldn’t listen. And a guy, who I overheard making a sarcastic remark on the bus regarding his doctor recommending antidepressants, who knew the two kids in the Columbine shootings, the two boys came to play pool at his foster care facility that he had then in Colorado, shared how they were bullied at school by jocks, the principle said to go the sheriff, the sheriff said to go the principle, nothing was done, the ring leader of the two had had his medications changed to Luvox just before the shootings, had told his doctor that Luvox was making him have angry thoughts at everyone, his friends, parents, girlfriend, teachers, etc. and the doctor told him to just keep taking the drugs. And the drug companies bought out that case, so this was never reported properly. I have to stop now, being already overloaded, just being awake and alive and talking to people with my brain, senses and curiosity open, rather than brainwashed. How many friends I’ve seen totally disabled by these neuroleptic drugs. People whose subconscious, or whose nature, just couldn’t adapt to said programming by “society,” and thus like all of everything nature does, that’s part of evolution rather than conforming to society and not be labeled as disruptive, they had behaviors they didn’t understand and were met with such alarmist, discriminatory, phobic, paranoid responses by authorities, and then having had their natural responses repressed, natural responses they were made to be terrified of consequently, they were broken, lost the ability to challenge, defy or get away from what was imprisoning them. And YET, in ways they remained more functional than the society at large deciding they weren’t, there STILL remained something human that couldn’t be destroyed…..
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I’m also terribly sorry for your loss, and it breaks my heart every time I hear about such knowing the real stories are often buried, never make it into mainstream media. And we lose very human, very dear, very vulnerable people whose stories might change society were they listened to rather than suppressed……. Not only, as J Munro so aptly said, are there a whole cocktail of drugs, to such an extent that one doesn’t know what is doing what… then there’s more leading to such confusion: the diagnosis (there isn’t really a consistency regarding diagnosis among psychiatrist to warrant true science of objectivity, see Paula Caplan’s books: They Say You’re Crazy and her other works), change of drugs ( each one disables natural brain functions in a different way), the way they are advertised or promoted, and the kind of sly ways the drug companies make something seem viable using language that sounds scientific while hiding the truths ( for example what “someone” has tried here with the logic that if science or truth actually exposes what might make the drugs unfavorable that is stigma against the drugs, or dangerous that it might make people want to not take their drugs etc. and then long term consequences are ignored) thus truth is suppressed that would give informed consent, information that would give a person the ability to make decisions based on knowledge rather than advise, ideology and propaganda…… After listening to what such “sources” say, a person may not know what to think anymore, having been filled with all sorts of alarmist ideas regarding short term results, short term results that when seen as being advantageous statistically bring on more problems in the long run, or people simply have been spoon fed constructed ideas of cause and effect that aren’t really true but actually designed to get a person to believe they need the drugs, again for short term results while long term statistically things gets worse….(causing chemical imbalance by disabling normal functions in the brain which marginally suppresses symptoms is said to be treating a chemical imbalance.
While in reality this isn’t treating a chemical imbalance its causing one, and the long term problems statistically correlate with the chemical imbalances the drugs cause, not the disease, but that’s again made out to be the disease….) etc. etc. etc…..There’s a whole spike in the problem, that’s why there’s a book called Anatomy of an Epidemic by Whitaker, and his other books “Psychiatry under the Influence,” and “Mad in America.” People actually have been made to believe that what statistically correlates with the epidemic, with the spike, is necessary to stop it. And when there’s more of the problem, they think that what’s correlates with causing it is the solution. Whether that’s over drugging, or the implementation of drugs to begin with rather than other modalities of therapy…….
How are people influenced such?
People in general are so bombarded with sound bytes, with consumer oriented stimuli, with themselves being turned into commodities by others seeing how they can get them to be consumers that……can they really think anything through themselves anymore. Do they even feel safe trying, or will they look towards some fabricated source instead? Just go back a couple of hundred years ago to writing of say Dickens, or Edith Wharton, or before them Shakespeare, or later Emily Dickinson’s poems, and people had an ability to follow their own thoughts, or relate to someone creating a whole world from their experience, their mind, their brain, their memory, to relate to scenarios their own minds were creating at a level that now a days seems to be quite infiltrated with the vulnerabilities instilled in them with these “soundbytes.” Go to a Hollywood blockbuster, Watch the News, Who’s the latest pop star, What’s that new flavor or item at said big food chain… etc!
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I don’t know about Frances, there’s a whole expose regarding him here: https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/04/allen-frances-still-spinning-the-story/ Yes he does attend certain issues that should have been brought out before they started, but he does also seem to still be defending his idea of treatment against others, and then buffing up his brand against there’s rather than perspective in general that might have more to say regarding the whole matrix. I would say read Whitaker who blessed us with this site, or Joanna Moncrieff…..
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From Corey: “Are you suggesting people go off their antipsychotics? Because thatâs dangerous especially if you donât know them”
Corey, are you suggesting that when, after implimenting antipsychotics for schizophrenia, or for bipolar (when such medications didn’t exist beforehand), that even though since the advent of such medications, there are at least 10 times (I think maybe 20 times or more, but I’d have to look) more occurrences of such diseases, that anyone questioning whether they are effective is promoting something dangerous? That’s simple statistics. And then there’s the science of how such medications work in that they cause a chemical imbalance in order to disable normal brain functions, and thus the short term reductions of symptoms. But they cause chemical imbalance, which first the drug companies tried to make out came from the disease, but then had to retract. THAT, I find I have to add is simple science, so people KNOW, and can make their own decisions. When someone can’t supply scientific or statistical facts without being accused of saying something is bad, when they haven’t, this regarding how objective science points out something that should be known given informed consent, what is that?
Then you make a statement about whether someone knows another, regarding telling them to get off of their meds. Which also wasn’t suggested, only by you that that’s what was said. Steve simply supplied statistical truths. But yeah, someone presents scientific evidence which would give people perspective regarding whether antipsychotics are the right choice, if that evidence isn’t favorable, then that’s dangerous, regardless of what the evidence says? Added to this. This whole blog is regarding a lady who did better getting off of Xanax. You don’t know her. She hasn’t been to you for treatment. You don’t even know what she initially went to the psychiatrist for, and yet, devoid of all of that knowing, you have made numerous attempts acting as if you have objective knowledge how she should have been treated.
Also, what Steve pointed out regarding the Harrow study. It’s the most severe cases of “schizophrenia” that did the best when going off of the antipsychotics given long term results. And so that’s the OPPOSITE or selection bias. Which then are WHAT they are, long term results. It also happens that people live more than say two years, regarding whether long term, or rather longitudinal studies are useful studies to look at.
You disparage cohort studies, longitudinal studies, although this isn’t really founded. You mention whether there are long term studies that say taking no antipsychotics hasn’t been shown to help hearing voices. When there’s lack of ANY kind of long term study regarding ANYTHING determining that it isn’t effective, this DOES NOT MEAN it’s effective. EXCUSE ME, but that way you could implement anything regarding whether it’s effective or not, as long as one lacks a long term study that says it’s not effective….
You also went on regarding forums and details. When Harrow’s study showed how “schizophrenics” with the most severe ” cases,” and that wasn’t him making those diagnosis, when he shows they do better in the long run getting off of antipsychotics, this DOES NOT MEAN that you can determine the opposite, that then they weren’t severe cases, which IS what you are doing, DESPITE what the data shows. THAT regarding details. Or stating there’s no long term study saying to not apply said treatment to said condition, so that excuses the mainstream treatment. NO! It doesn’t. Would anyone actually look at what you stated there, they would see you are promoting the premise that as long as it hasn’t been proven that not applying said directive is better than the directive, then that excuses or condones the directive….. Those are details? We’ve done something, and no one proved whether doing nothing is better, so that’s being helpful. And then regarding statistics that show that “something” isn’t always such a good idea, that’s dangerous. This is OK as long as they haven’t proven that not implementing it is more helpful…..
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To begin with, you donât KNOW what she went into treatment for, you donât know this lady, she hasnât been to you asking for ANY treatment or medications, this is HER blog post, not a diagnostic request. References in a blog post regarding suicidal thoughts because of Xanax, and then the mention that Xanax makes anxiety worse does not mean YOU have had ANY conversation with her and know why she was asking for treatment. Neither does her stating that anxiety is worsened with Xanax mean that why she was asking for treatment was because of anxiety. And then the add on, which you have posted numerous times stating âscienceâ or âfacts.â Because something is mainstream does not make it science. When âmedicationsâ cause chemical imbalance in a brain disabling it from normal functions, and in a marginal way short term symptoms are suppressed although in the long term statistically things get worse, this isnât science to say they are treating a chemical imbalance which was there in the first place, and that such medications are needed for life to treat this chemical imbalance. SCIENCE would be stating the medications cause chemical imbalance, NOT the disease, and that long term outcomes become worse. THAT also would be informed consent.
Many of us here are quite familiar with the way psychiatrists will change diagnosis, and then medications, often without even caring to take into consideration withdrawal periods, mostly without informed consent when medications are changed or initiated. YOU demonstrate this dangerous disabling habit by diagnosing multiple times someone you NEVER have even seen in a professional manner. Neither is there any proven consistency with diagnosis among psychiatrists enough that such diagnosis are objective (see They Say Youâre Crazy by Paula Caplan). Weâve seen that you read references to suicidal thoughts or anxiety caused by a drug and when itâs clearly expressed that getting off of the drug healed those problems, you instead act as if she went into treatment because of what the drugs caused. You behave as if this lady has come to you for treatment diagnosis, know how she should be diagnosed or treated differently dismissing that it was the drug that caused the anxiety and the suicidal thoughts, even though when the drug was stopped those symptoms went away. What if your âdiagnosisâ wouldnât have worked, would you have changed the diagnosis and/or drugs again? Instead, this blog shows that getting off of a psychiatric drug, getting off of Xanax, healed her.
Would anyone actually READ the article, rather than with a clearly biased onset extracting a reference to thoughts, or a phrase there, taking it out of context, and making themselves out to be an authority regarding someone they havenât had ANY professional interactions with, they would see that this lady is doing well after getting off of the drug hampering her. You display quite clearly and accurately exactly what Birdsong stated in a post days ago:
The only thing âcomplexed and nuancedâ about psychiatry is the way it fools people into believing its âdiagnosesâ represent discrete biological âdisordersâ that its âmedicationsâ can âtreatâ.
And your reply being:
You are saying no psych meds work? Thatâs laughable
You continue as if you have the ability to make diagnosis of someone you have never seen in a profession setting, who hasnât gone to you for help, who got better getting away from any such intrusion into her life, and then present yet another diagnosis involving âmedicationâ for someone who got better without any such, and again medications that above have been highly contradicted as being effective. You donât know what she was initially being treated for, because sheâs not, isnât, wasnât your patient. Neither can you decide what she should have, should be or would be treated for, as sheâs not, isnât wasnât nor do I think ever will be your patient. She also got better getting away from the fashion of treatment you are promoting.
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I can’t start to express how heartbreaking all of this is. The amount of friends, people vulnerably human, that I have watched the psychiatric system and these “medications” turn into beggars terrified of their own humanity. Like the ones you see on the street corners getting a scrap here and there, when there are whole dumpsters and empty houses filled with what they would need, but it’s all locked up. Where does all this money go, for example that the insurance companies pay out, Government sponsored programs, grants, research, academics, donations to help “mental health,” etc. etc.!!!!!?
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I think actually the psychiatrist must also have a PHD. That involves a medical degree. How does this excuse him from not heeding the warnings, that I think would go beyond the warning labels on the drugs the patient gets because the patient was supposed to have read certain warning labels? And regarding what information is missing, we don’t know what that warning label was, at that time. Nor given what was shared, and what others that kept their eyes open for what these drugs do to others, does it seem the warnings would be adequate. For whatever reason you would start pondering whether someone had in-patient-treatment, or for what, what does this have to do with her blog post, other than you’re trying to color her as someone into substance abuse, despite all the warning signs the doctor should have seen? You also seem to be insinuating that she’s hiding something, when in reality you don’t know that, nor do we. Why do you introduce this? Many of us are quite aware of this comparison with psychiatry and street drugs, peer pressure, addiction etc. the difference here is that psychiatry legally prescribes these drugs. Regarding whether she, or ANYONE else, would be hiding something. I don’t really see that her having in-patient-treatment would lead towards substance abuse problems, she states clearly why she was on Xanax, and that it helped her, at first for a couple of years. Then the problems started, and thus the in-patient-treatment. But I don’t know, and I hadn’t tacked on: “she had in-patient-treatment” so was she into substance abuse? And is she or anyone else was, this doesn’t further point to unprofessional behavior from the psychiatrist? It’s also characteristic that psychiatry can hide how they made someone addicted using patient confidentiality as an excuse, and then hide side effects, and then you say information is missing, would someone not have shared they had substance abuse problems. I don’t see that such a suspicion would apply or is insightful given what the blogger has shared. Are there any other suspicions she had about her personal life, and why she would have asked or been advised to take Xanax? Should she not have allowed her boss to overwork her, or was she letting her children (which we don’t know whether she had, but yeah, information could be missing) stress her out too much, or is it the neighbor, or the neighbor’s children? Do you also think she’s getting money from some hidden outside source for simply sharing what this psychiatrist and the drug companies did to her? Again, that’s more the case with the drug companies where when the APA has a meeting normal rules of conflicts of interest have to be suspended. The blogger also HERSELF states she should have heeded earlier warnings: “But alongside the relief, I was also overwhelmed with deep sorrow for what I had endured, and profound regret for not heeding the warning signs sooner, particularly those from the staff at the well-respected facility that I went to. They urged me to get off Xanax but I didnât listen. Essentially, the darker things got, the deeper my trust grew, trusting your opinion only.”
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To begin with, this blog post, this article, isn’t about antidepressants, it’s about what Xanax did to someone, something that went away after she STOPPED such “treatment.” Seems like someone then decided she was supposed to be on antidepressants instead, because she had suicidal thoughts, although they only emerged after being on Xanax. If someone is in an abusive relationship which depresses them and makes them suicidal, but gets out of it, should they also be told that they should have been in an antidepressant trial!? How is such a correlation made, that by a professional who can prescribe such, when really the statement regarding suicidality was made concerning another psychiatric drug, and went away after treatment with that drugs was stopped?
Those two graphs regarding antidepressant efficacy are only for 84 days. Not only does that not say anything about what happens or happened afterwards, which statistically correlates with more relapsing, but we would have to see more data regarding what actually went on in the trial those 84 days, before just believing these graphs, that in themselves don’t show much efficacy, if those are the true results.
There are quite a few standard methods that the odds have been skewed, or made more favorable to the non control group:
1) Someone in the control group (and I’m sorry, in past posts I got control and non control confused, it was confusing to me because it’s the control group that doesn’t get the treatment, although to me it seems that getting a treatment is being controlled, so I’m sorry for that, in prior posts. REALLY sorry. I had control and non control group mixed up), however with antidepressants trials it was standard that would anyone in the control group get better within the first week or so, they would be taken out of the trial. Not counted. The guise being that then they weren’t really depressed although someone in the non control getting better is left there. In other words, to actually validate that those in the non control were actually being treated in a fashion that helped them, and not having the placebo effect or simply having their depression go away the first week, you’d have to have duplicates of them, exact duplicates, and have the other in the control group. That seems a bit impossible, which to me says you need to leave those in the control group that that got better the first week there. They of course didn’t take those in the non control group that got better the first week out of the trial, let alone see if they had disruptive withdrawal symptoms would they have to or want to get off of the medications. I think this “washout” method rigs the odds in favor of the non control group. Then often enough, many people in the non control group had to leave the trials, because of side effects, that also wasn’t counted as a failure of the antidepressants, this to me AGAIN rigs the odds. Added to this often the non control group was given not just antidepressants, but an antidepressants and a sedative because of restlessness, meaning it wasn’t really a trail for antidepressants, it was for more than one drug. And then they had to start adding people that already were on psychiatric drugs to get the odds they wanted, which means people that already were used to, liked, or in order to get approval from those prescribing already found psychiatric drugs favorable. Psychiatric drugs being then medications that disable natural functions of the brain, which they all do. Regarding people already in such a habit. Then one can add that there were many many trials made, and only the ones that added up to any efficacy were reported, the rest dismissed, this seems a bit dishonest, as well.
And then we have what happened to those in the non control group that had to get off of the antidepressants after the trial was over, and their sometimes severe side effects not being reported, or at first not included in the trial data.
After ALL OF THAT it would indeed be beyond bleak would there not be any efficacy turning up, but what turns up still remains quite marginal.
To determine what those graphs really show, we would have to be given the information regarding what I listed above. All of it. That isn’t given…..
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I want to thank again Jackie Munro for her beautiful article. I notice that up above already there’s seems to be a parallel going on, which I’m hesitant to incite to more, Steve did such a good job responding, already.
A psychiatrist comes along, he says that you should have been put on an antidepressant trial, not Xanax, then goes on about it supposedly helping suicidal thoughts, which Steve then articulately supplies contradiction to, also pointed out the sources backing the psychiatrist’s statements don’t add up. Now, am I wrong, but it seems to me that this article is not about going to a psychiatrist regarding suicidal thoughts, it’s about Xanax, and anxiety, and the result of Xanax causing such thoughts, which otherwise weren’t there. That it’s about the sheer hopelessness of the insensitive, irresponsible and unprofessional behavior of a psychiatrist, who didn’t care to see what the result was, or even responsibly take in the warnings or advice regarding treatment warnings. Where does an article about how Xanax causing what it did, turns into what Xanax caused that wasn’t there before should have been what was prescribed. WHAT!? When someone finds a situation or drug causes them to become suicidal, they should have been on antidepressants, this then excuses the antidepressants, the situation and the other drug? Let’s forgo mentioning get out of the situation when another psychiatric drug becomes involved because you know the drugs are necessary. To not prescribe them makes no sense. No, you should have been given a prescription for what the other psychiatric drug caused, even though the symptom wasn’t there without it. If there are any possible side effects with psychiatric drugs, should we first start taking drugs for the side effects, just to make sure!? How would we know? What does this have to do with ADHD medications, and who needs them: the psychiatrist or the patient, or both for proper treatment? Will that help them to follow orders, to avoid non compliance for either patient or psychiatrist, because such well thought out preventative measures are a bit difficult to follow to make sense out of? Is there any other drug that should be involved? Is there anyone who can predetermine yet to emerge side effects that need to be prevented before they emerge, and is there a problem getting funding for research are new medications determined to be necessary, or is that a bit too much regarding preventative or diagnostic measures?
And antidepressants help dogs with depression. That’s stated as fact. Someone with the same name stated, only then just a first one. Is this depression just a problem around humans? Are just the humans seeing this as depression or have the dogs supplied objective evaluations regarding their own depression, and how did they do this themselves? Or are dogs only able to express themselves objectively when humans do it for them? Should the humans also be taking some sort of psychiatric help given a situation which could be quite distressing should side effects show up? Should these side effects be thwarted with another prescription before turning up? What about dogs in the wild? Are they also suffering because of loss of territory and global warming? Currently only 4% of mammals are wild, the rest being domesticated, this might also be quite bleak for the wild ones. Would antidepressants help them as well? The wild ones? Or should this be administered already because the depression might emerge from further loss of territory or global warming, or that there are even less wild dogs compared to domesticated ones (same as with suicidal thoughts emerging with Xanax should have been instead given antidepressants would they emerge although they didn’t without them)?
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Jackie, thank you for your articulate, and lively vivacious article. I’m so glad that not only you somehow got out of this insult to a circus pushing you on all sides, stimulating you into what you thought you couldn’t deal with anymore, poking at you, not listening to your own input, response, or experience, then poking you more, then…..
God bless it that you got out of such a dizzy dizzy situation.
I had a psychiatrist, friend of my mother, way back before she diagnosed me, she prescribed pain medications when I had contusions from a car accident on my right side. All that the problem was, was I would have needed to wait for a month or so, and I could then sit again and play the Chopin etudes at the piano. The pain medications taught me to sit wrong, although I could practice a Beethoven concerto, Chopin etudes required more of the body, and years passed, I didn’t know I had learned to do this, all sorts of problems I wasn’t aware of, or didn’t turn up till later. I have to say, maybe you’ve experience that as well, that it is rather interesting to find solutions, which I’ve done on my own, teaching the muscles to go back into alignment, although I would have wanted to avoid all of such, and often wish it just would go away, albeit this being more than half a lifetime later, and Chopin also has been waiting, who I already knew through a medium, and just have to laugh when I had a sitting at a piano with him, and he didn’t even mention I added a few extra spices to what’s called the Winter Wind Etude, or was I just doing that now, without knowing it at first I had wanted to start playing where these spices would end up, when sitting with him at a piano, he coming through a medium, and when I hesitated, only thinking that chord, he asked me why I’d stopped, and the medium’s hand came to the other side of the piano, the eyes closed wouldn’t have seen any of the notes, and played the one correct chord, which he had done earlier regarding another passage, pointing out if I played a supposedly slight variation in a phrase the wrong way, being that I would play it as it is written the other time, I’d hear why it’s that way, rather than this stupid question of mine, whether it was like Polish grammar which is quite complex, has seven cases someone told me. Chopin also did the same regarding part of a Mozart sonata. There supposedly was a compositional error, if you misinterpreted the voicing, since the hands couldn’t play all the notes,what’s called parallel fifths, he again didn’t correct me, but said: “maybe you were thinking this,” and then played how you could fix what wasn’t wrong, only if you misinterpreted it. REALLY COOL GUY!…… But I was diagnosed also, more than half a lifetime ago, shortly within a year or so after that, because stuff was going on that I didn’t have an outlet to talk about, and the balance between the left brain (it was seriously stuff that one can’t talk about, that people find crazy, I knew that so and so would be in my life, although there was no way I could know that rationally, then he showed up, and I couldn’t deal with it, something jarred, whether it was I just needed space for myself or…..)….. the balance between the lobes of the brain regarding stuff that doesn’t come really from physical perception, and the whole ability the brain has for imagination and dreams, and everything transcending such…… while people were making me out to be crazy, and this psychiatrist believed stuff my parents told her, as if something wasn’t going on when all they would have had to do is ask the neighbor lady to find it it was……. and then the world’s way or interpreting stuff that it doesn’t solve, but the spiritual energies can, although that’s ALSO made out to be “crazy.” Even the people saying the represented the spiritual energies, even while AGAIN “professional” got in the way, terribly. I remember having to talk to this psychiatrist, actually a very nice lady and was open to me dealing with the problem without “medications,” even what art might have to do with it, but yet simply thinking she would be someone that would listen, and the anxiety that brought, and then trying even harder to communicate and becoming more and more fragmented disassociating from their inabilities. THEIR disabilities…. I didn’t go for psychiatric drugs, instead coffee and cigarettes, which will put you in quite a state, and I over did it, but it was such a crutch……. although i was free to stop, and no one was prescribing all of that. And then on disability I could allow art, dreams, imagination to be what perhaps they are meant to be, without having to meet deadlines……..
I’m right at the age where I have to rebalance the muscles, to prevent becoming decrepit in my old age. And no, it’s not a good idea to take pain medications while the muscles are still healing, so that you can do things that the pain would tell you not to do. I finally know enough to understand the emotional language, the tendencies or push to escape when I could just practice non attachment or meditate, the whole IMMENSE perspective beyond just being normal, the adventure you incur when you’ve experience so much beyond the norm that……..somehow I can balance that out now…. I have to meditate every day for at least an hour. Something brought up by a healer (Carol Everett Healing Sanctuary), that to get the energy for a healing that also wasn’t supposed to happen given physical limitations, she said to do this, and then also gave me a jump start for such………. But one does learn what’s there……
The brain is an amazing vehicle, so is the body, so is the soul, and so is what transcends that into forever and remains……
Thank you for your effervescent blog, article, story, piece of art you shared here…… I’m glad you made it. Be happy!
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Sir, try not to fool people into making out what was said was something else. What was said was “it fools people into believing its âdiagnosesâ represent discrete biological âdisordersâ that its âmedicationsâ can âtreatâ. There is TO DATE no real proof that ANY psychiatric medications treat a proven chemical imbalance. That would be a biological disorder. Now, I’m sure you can cherry pick this or that article, but in reality even the drug companies quite awhile gave up on coming forth with what for years they said was “making headway” in regards that their was “compelling evidence,” that they would find proof of this chemical imbalance they said they were treating, but in reality haven’t substantiated what they said they would find. Yes, psychiatric drugs work by disabling natural functions of the brain, and one can scientifically detail how this works, but that does not mean they are treating a verifiable or as was said “discrete” biological disorder.
Mr. Corey Yilmaz, MD. Someone makes a statement backed up by science, regarding psychiatric drugs. Uses accurate terminology. Refers to what would be a biological disorder. You make out she said something she didn’t and then say it’s “laughable.” Is such how you treat your patients who make statement that science can back up, but contradict what you would promote?
I would suggest you try not to insult people who challenge you to respond in a professional way, which so far you haven’t.
And then there’s informed consent.
If then psychiatric drugs statistically, while causing chemical imbalance (let’s just skip informed consent for this argument, not that it should be skipped, but let’s just skip it to make a point), that by disabling natural function of the brain statistically correlate with a lessening of mental illnesses, that would be something, but in reality there’s a spike not only in mental illnesses but in disability. Any reasonable person, with perspective, when ANYONE asks for such a drug, or before recommending such, would explain that it doesn’t treat a known chemical imbalance, that it doesn’t treat a known biological disease, that it causes a chemical imbalance, but disabling natural functions of the brain seems to help for some people. THAT at least should be said. That would be professional and involve informed consent. Anyone who would care to look at science and statistics further, and be responsible might add that since the advent of these medications there’s a spike in mental illness and disability. That also is long term and in general, NOT cherry picking short term results, and a certain populace for whom these drugs seems to work, while the rest no longer take part in such “treatment.” And that it might be better to try first alternative methods, or therapy, or exercise, or meditation, or walks in nature, or art or taking a look at one’s life to see what might be causing the emotion or responses one is trying to get rid of. Or simply waiting and not fighting with the emotion, not trying to push it away, but finding what helps it to go away. All of that has better long term results.
That you are so sure that what statistics show is in correlation with a spike, is treating an actual biological disease, that when someone simply states one can’t really back this up, there isn’t real grounded science to support this, and so states: “it fools people into believing its âdiagnosesâ represent discrete biological âdisordersâ that its âmedicationsâ can âtreatâ. You call this laughable, what does this say about your willingness to look at science and statistics?
That’s in general how people behave when someone dares to say something against the programming of what’s made out to be an authority. That’s also what often is most hurtful to people struggling with a mental illness, that they haven’t been able to, or allowed to, or even get in touch with what they really feel, think, or have experienced. And then they hear such responses, as their behavior is “laughable” or they are just “wrong” or “sick.”
Please try to be professional as in: “first, do no harm…..”
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Well, I had a neighbor, across the hall, and he had rescued a puppy from, what he told me, having all of his siblings murdered, drowned. He told me that those people had been arrested, and the one puppy, that I knew of, had been rescued. He then told me that the dog was put on antidepressants. What we, and who was left in the apartment building experienced, was that as soon as this man left each day, or each morning, the puppy would howl so loud the whole block would hear it, and it scratched so much at the door that it scratched part of the wood, and the carpet loose. Another friend of mine had rescued a dog from the shelter that was already on antidepressants, and couldn’t handle the dog at all, and had to return it. She was so loving of animals, a cat she had adopted she put an extra door for it in her door, would build special housing etc. This lady was loving to any stray, but that one dog…… I did a google search for: “My dog on antidepressants was a nightmare” and you get hits like “antidepressant poisoning in dogs” or “antidepressant toxicity in dogs” or another hit explaining it should only be for short term.
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I’ve read the whole article linked, and then went to a link from the article, regarding that Kennedy wants to send people to farms to work against their will, when on antidepressants, yet one only has to read the link and it says the opposite:
“Iâm going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they needâthree or four years if they need itâto learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities.”
Making it available for people, who want to get off of antidepressants or other drugs, that such a resource exists, when they want to, this is not at all sending people to force work on farms. It’s more partisan mud slinging to not see that. And no, me saying that doesn’t mean I’m on whatever side, either.
It says “if they want to” which anyone can read. When someone proposes programs for people, if they want to, to get off of antidepressants, this is giving people free choice. In fact the whole article linked https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/07/rfk-jr-wants-to-send-people-on-antidepressants-to-government-wellness-farms/ runs about as rampant as saying that any sort of recovery program, would someone want to get off of a medication, that that is something else than it is. The Quakers had such programs and they worked in a way that there was way more recovery than exists now. PERIOD. FULL. STOP. Would anyone read what the articles say, Kennedy is only making such a program available for those who want to get off of antidepressants.
It’s also completely not true that people on this site who have written articles haven’t themselves experienced mental illness, which “Claire” describes as “neurodiverse.” Neither is it true that they haven’t had the more “severe” conditions. Again, one only has to actually read the many articles on this site. In fact, what’s descriptive regarding this site is that it allows people to say things they couldn’t say, so often, to their psychiatrist or even their MD, without being labeled as non compliant, and then forced on treatment. This site also allows people to actually share what was healing for them, even after it wasn’t allowed as a potential. Just read the comments and the articles on this site. It’s also quite descriptive that Claire fails to mention that the majority of what one reads regarding mental illness, from those promoting mainstream drugging: not only is the great majority of it from people who don’t have a psychiatric label, haven’t been through treatment themselves, but it’s mostly those same people (psychiatrists, psychiatric nurses, the drug companies, social workers, academicians, media outlets) that wouldn’t allow a patient to even state the truth regarding whether the treatment is working for them and back it up with scientific and statistical data; that would force, or promote forcing someone who simply states scientific or statistical facts against a treatment on that treatment. That would force a person on treatments that scientifically correlate with causing a chemical imbalance, treatments are said to be treating one when in reality causing one. Nor acknowledge the scientific and statistical data, as well as suppress the stories of those who have found a different modality of healing. Now whose voice isn’t being heard? And you only have to read the articles here, or the comments, and see that there indeed are a whole collection of people who have had serious mental illness diagnosis and symptoms that found healing their own way. Of course there are researchers and others. Of course, and then the whole community of people who have found help in such a fashion, the people that mainstream psychiatry not only refused to listen to, said were non compliant and then forced on treatments that didn’t work for them, and then recovered on their own, these people supposedly don’t exist on this site. People with every bit as severe symptoms, that go for, in whatever way they could find, a treatment that’s not via psychiatric drugs, it is not true that they don’t exist. It’s not true that they â people who have had as serious symptoms as anyone else regarding whatâs called mental illness â don’t have their voice on this site. Nor is it true that because they healed without or by getting off of psychiatric drugs, that their symptoms weren’t as bad. Neither is it true that Robert Whitaker says that people’s conditions come from their drugs, he simply states evidence that the drugs, when looked at statistically given long term effects, correlate with less recovery. He and many other people also do enough research and have enough perspective to be able to point out when whatâs called a psychiatric symptom may be coming from side effects or withdrawal symptoms or from the initial starting period of psychiatric drugs. And no, to label all of that as stating that what was there in the first place, and that people on this site who have found alternative methods that healed them share, that he is saying what they healed when the drugs didnât help them, that it comes from the drugs, thatâs so out of place, despite it dismissing other peopleâs experiences (they supposedly had nothing going on with them then, you can just dismiss their story), one can only wonder what is being disabled that the scientific data consistently proves is being disabled regarding natural brain functions, despite itâs supposed to be treating a chemical imbalance rather than causing one, when it is causing one. That’s also why a program, for people that want to get off of their antidepressants, would be helpful. To turn that into hysterics, that once again Kennedy said something he didn’t, propped up by partisan politics, well, there you go again. NOTHING is that one sided.
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I’ve heard or rather read, that RFK supposedly said people would be forced into farms rather than get antidepressants!? I really wonder what that’s about. What I think is that he simply repeated what history has shown, and also healing homes of Finland, and that, people that would be committed to an asylum, when they are simply surrounded by a healthy life, an asylum, as the Quakers did, where the idea of asylums come from, and that there was recovery. That’s recovery, which then is lacking in present treatment. I think he simply stated THAT, regarding people that would be committed to an asylum. He stated what correlates with recovery for those that would be committed. I don’t think he anywhere said anyone wanting antidepressants should be locked up in a farm. But oh, someone says where recovery happens despite the biochemical model of mental illness that correlates with less recovery, even less recovery than no treatment, then suddenly he’s saying anyone that wants antidepressants would be locked up in a farm. No, he was stating something regarding recovery that’s proven science and history, regarding those that are committed to an asylum, nothing regarding someone wanting antidepressants or not. And I think he also was simply talking about informed consent. And no, wanting informed consent, when people can then still make their own choice regarding whether they go on antidepressants, this in now way turns into him saying anyone that wants antidepressants is forced to work on a farm. I think he stated how the older Quaker method worked, and homes of Finland worked for those that are committed, and there’s more recovery.
Then, supposedly he said false things regarding proof of correlation with school shootings and antidepressants. And he only said regarding the tests that aren’t happening because of information withheld through medical confidentiality regarding mass shooters, that if that information was there, you might be able to further state correlation with the two. And when he says this, pointing out what would have to happen to determine correlation, he’s either supposedly saying there is correlation, which he didn’t, while in reality he’s only stating there’s enough to warrant looking whether there is correlation but information withheld because of confidentiality would have to be looked at, which isn’t done but he and MANY people feel should be. And then it’s constantly said that there’s no proven correlation, but it’s not acknowledged that to prove there ISN’T correlation you’d have to have the information that’s withheld. “We can’t tell you whether school shooters were on antidepressants because that information is withheld because of patient confidentiality,” does not prove there’s no correlation.
Then it’s stated how many people are on whatever, as if this proves whatever works. Then sugar would be a miracle drug in the US given the amount of people saying they need it, or keeping up the habit, along with a whole list of other stuff, like artificial coloring, MSG, preservatives, what have you……anything addictive or mainstream with enough consumer consumption suddenly enhances their life and works. The statistics however show otherwise, and that’s also the case with psychiatric drugs.
No, suppressing symptoms with medications that cause chemical imbalance, while mostly not even giving informed consent, and saying that a brain chemically imbalanced by drugs interfering with natural functions of the brain this treats what it causes, that isn’t treating a chemical imbalance, it’s causing one. THAT is science. To say so many people are on such, does NOT make it science. Added that there’s more disability and mental illness ADDS to the fact that this doesn’t prove it’s science at work healing, it rather proves the opposite is going on. And then there’s the history of making out the disease causes what in reality the drugs do. That the disease causes a chemical imbalance, rather than the drugs scientifically have been proven to, but the disease hasn’t. First the drug companies stating this, AFTER people have been “medicated” and the drugs clearly correlate with the chemical imbalance. Then it has to be proven false, then they have to retract that. Happened with schizophrenia, that supposedly it’s too much dopamine, but then this turned up because of the medications, clearly, after this was really looked at scientifically. Or antidepressants are because of serotonin deficiency, when AGAIN, in reality, that shows up after someone is on antidepressants long enough that the brain starts making less of it. Simple TRUE science. You inhibit serotonin re-uptake and there’s more of it lounging around, and the brain after awhile starts making less. You put another something in the receptors for dopamine and the dopamine doesn’t attach, so the brain starts making more BECAUSE the dopamine isn’t doing what it’s there for, because of the medications, but this is said to be what the disease does. NO! In BOTH cases it’s the drugs. They still haven’t proven any chemical imbalance they say they are treating, although all their medications scientifically cause chemical imbalance. But again, when anyone states these truths, this is “unscientific.” Why is that? Because now 10 percent of people, actually more, in the US are on such drugs. This supposedly proves they need it, and it works. Then AGAIN one is supposed to dismiss science, this time statistics. There isn’t less mental illness or disability, there’s MORE of it, WHEN there’s that many people in such “treatments.”
And then we hear once again that in other countries there aren’t that many mass shootings. It’s not mentioned that probably at least the antidepressant use is 1/3rd of what it is in the US. It’s not mentioned that in those countries the media isn’t bombarded or bombarding people regularly with stories regarding mass shootings. It’s not mentioned that those countries probably aren’t like the US, having a military budget that is more than how many other countries or what sort of population on the planet together and the population might be a bit less inundated with excuses for why weapons are salvation. Someplace RFK might start with, rather than going straight to antidepressants, but that doesn’t mean antidepressants don’t leave a person more programmable to such influences, and there’s enough hinting that there might be such a correlation, but again information is withheld because of medical confidentiality. But he can’t even say that it would be prudent to allow that information to be opened up, to see if there’s correlation. He can’t say that without people saying he says there’s correlation when he hasn’t said so, only that you can’t say that BECAUSE of the data that’s kept hidden. It’s not possible to see whether there’s correlation when what would need to be allowed as data to determine such isn’t allowed.
And then there’s correlation that’s there but is simply dismissed.
In “developing” countries where they don’t have money for all of these psychiatric “medications” and recovery is much greater, then when there is correlation this is dismissed why? Is that AGAIN because it’s another country? Still it remains in THIS country that there is, in the long run, more recovery without such drugs, or when a person gets off of them. Again science is denied…….
I DO think RFK might help himself and the country, that if it’s proven there’s a link between antidepressants and school shootings, or other forms of violence beyond what’s already in the black box warning label, despite the drug companies trying to prevent that, he might look at why people in this country are vulnerable to thinking such is a solution; that even if there does show to be a correlation, it might point out to something else needs to be attended to. Or he might just start there, and start seeing the many ways violence is excused as just or necessary, or defense, when it never really ends up being such in the long run………
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This isnât for everyone to read. I know there are those on this site who have had RSA abuse, and are still healing from it. I had it in a past incarnation, so Iâm just sharing what hope is for othersâŚ..
I have to add another post, Barbara Rogers mentioned how there were hundreds of cases, and the same thing happened with the therapist that helped Brice Taylor, mentioned in Brice Taylorâs book, that she wouldnât believe at first such was going on that the satanic scare said wasnât for real, but there were AGAIN what she says 60 other such cases: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu-SZY5bVr8&t=143s
Itâs not like this isnât part of history, as well. I wonât go into not being able to read Virginia Woolfâs the waves, because, well I used to konk out before the end, like my record player before it resonated with, up above is mentionedâŚâŚ I saw her there in a crowd having to watch something awful, like they had back then. Then I put the book down, although I since have finished the wonderful novel, the rhythm of lifeâŚ.. A whole âfestivalâ with food celebration ,dancing, all sorts of colors, decorations, and there I, an autistic boy, not knowing how to respond to life, was put to death. Someone I know now, but got away from for now, first ties me up, stakes me to the ground, and these maniac people acting like warriors start using knives to pull apart, rip off my flesh like birds of prey. And I had already bowed down from making ANY sense out of it, so I didnât really feel a thing, much, other than feeling sorry for such sad behavior, actually. How could I have âmemoriesâ of this âfestivalâ like coming from on high, like I was flying in? So maybe we can both survive THAT now. Or another incarnations I shy from going on about itâs so ridiculous. Itâs like if you have any natural talent in certain areas that happen by themselves, beyond social whateversâŚâŚ And then returning in another incarnation with the same guy that I was put to death for, that we both were talented what we could do with our bodies, naturally, and having his child (although I was a woman then, we had both been boys or young men before), I remember something ELSE in that incarnation from some Hollywood star now I donât want to mentionâŚ..
Anyhow, regarding the satanic scare, this was going on in the dark ages, in Europe. I was a gypsy boy, a roma gypsy, people who are STILL horribly persecuted, like the natives from the US, and who police kill more than the Black victims, often during âwellnessâ checks. I wouldnât have remembered this but for AGAIN paranoid people, when I was trying to take a yoga class, which I mentioned in another post, years ago, ALSO involving âHollywoodâ but thatâs not in my post listings, because of hacking attempts on this site, and all such was lost. Just simply trying to share something regarding my love for yoga, to someone who was a teacher, turns out was a social worker, so brainwashed, that there seemed to be no end to what sheâd make up regarding irrational paranoia towards me, what MANY people have encountered and not survived thanks to the mental health system. VERY akin to what went on with colonialism. THOSE people are uncivilizedâŚ.. She had a friend, that when I simply was myself, sharing what truly was a love for yoga, which I STILL retain regarding any such teachings (feldenkrais, meditation, tai chi which I havenât gotten into enough yet, etc.) but then I supposedly according to the friend was in the teacherâs personal space (turns out SHE was in mine, making sometimes quite illegal presumptions, as if she could read my thoughts, as when I didnât go to class because I couldnât get there, instead of that I couldnât get there, she supposedly knew I was resentful of a supposed disagreement we had (and no one sees what kind of nonsense such is, as if she knew why I didnât show up, and when I WAS there then again she felt free to misinterpret EVERYTHING, Iâm supposedly dangerously in love with her which I wasnât, itâs quite insulting that I would be in love with such a warped barby doll figure, plus Iâm gay; or that Iâm a dangerous psychotic, when in reality SHE is the one with hostile non-reality-based paranoia) You can look her up Kimberly Slendak-Baker, in Pawpaw Michigan she had an office as a social worker I donât know her friendâs name. That social worker, there also was past lifetime abuse, I found out, I was again an orphan by the mediteranean, first I saw myself knocked out by her, physically assaulted, then I was being sexually abused by her, who was then âhim,â which was so bizarre, as if that was some âkindnessâ of how one treats an orphan, or exploits them, that you only wonder where the flip such ideas came from. So when their paranoia (both of them) as the other remains is said to hit the proverbial fan, I had to start wondering what the FLIP that was all about. What does this have to do with past incarnations? So I saw myself as this young orphan, this Roma Gypsy, and my mother had been murdered. I didnât know even what the congealed blood was on her body, which must have become cold. Somehow, that night a spirit could wrap me up in a bear skin coat, and I slept, or was it a human? My mother was just gone, although I know who that is now, and also was Giorgione the painter, the father already murdered also has true spiritual connection in the arts, since. It seems. For awhile, a cook in the castle liked to have me around. I havenât seen him for awhile, actually. A bus driver now. But then this âfriendâ of the social worker came along, some violent âsoldierâ like person and shoed me out of the castle. This one https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1156166-d3172515-Reviews-Baba_Vida_Fortress-Vidin_Vidin_Province.html I as a gypsy was of course âevilâ vermin, and unwanted. According to him, this time around her, as this person was female, now, when I actually expressed my love for yoga to a yoga teacher I was in her personal space? Iâm shoed out of the castle. It was cold in the forest, and then I found my way to another city, but there I got picked up by someone who was want to pick up such orphans, then handing the over to what he didnât know was a cult. I remember ending up in a carriage with someone who was supposed to help me, but something was terribly wrong. Like when you gasp quietly inside yourself, feeling something thatâs simply shockingâŚ.. And my memory went from being in that carriage to being in a closet of a room with a priest who I was meant to give fellatio to. I was a boy of say 6 or 7? 8? I donât know exactly how they âtrainedâ me, whow ould want to know? But this still goes on in the mind control cults the satanic scare says doesnât exist. Of all places, I ran into this âpriestâ again at a party of some politician who now is mayor. The âpriestâ from back then was sitting like he was hiding on a bench of an alcove down steps leading to Lake Michigan. Then ended up being still such an âauthorityâ being the pastor of a church I had a good friend going to. Of all things he mentioned something that he thought might be politically incorrect with the situation there, given the other people at the party. Then went on about going to give a sermon someplace else, as if it was who knows what glory he was nervous about. When my friend who went to his church died, he caused trouble, I heard, that he was so controlling over what would happen at her funeral, as if he knew what should be said, or represented, saying this to a family member of hers, which I donât know why I remark about THAT, because that family member had my friend who passed away commited, AGAIN being a social worker with such knee jerk responses. The father of both of them, also member of the church died, and the minister gave a sermon regarding of all things I think tornado storms, likening that this deceased man was a member of his church, that he would know what to turn to when there was warning, the whole glory of what the church was made out to beakin to knowing what to do when thereâs a tornado warning, where to turn. I have to add that this poor man who passed away, when I shared people that actually had the same stuff going on that Jesus had, miracles that were made out to be against who knows what (reality, a gift from the devil, who knows whatâŚ. Against the FDA!?), then this man who was said to know, posthumously, what to do when there were tornado warnings, told me: âI guess Iâm just not interested in thatâŚ.â WHAT is the church supposed to be about? The minister definitely wasnât a child molester anymore, nor was the politician who had a party at his nice cottage at the lake, but the minister was still quite impressionable, and of course at such a party, I would hear: âthatâs the guy thatâs crazy.â I donât know how the cult, back then, got someone to think being given oral stimulant by a child was akin to wearing after shave, which is how I associated such, that the man then thought he was given some special privileges or cosmetic enhancement. You can only imagine what kind of weird ideas were going on at all levels, what children were supposed to be, what being tended to is, what special treatment or privileges areâŚ. How does someone get that messed up? Is it the penal system that glorifies trauma as a means of mind control, and having traumatized a child through mind control to be used such is some wonder!? Like a trained animal that does tricks for special people? I remember some stuff still going on in such cults reported widely among survivors. They would bury me alive, but being just a boy, I could transport my spirit out of there, walk in the essence air or wind has upon the grasses outside, more real than this âbodyâ with its limitations. Or they would threaten to throw me out a window, forcefully sticking my head out of it, while holding it would I not be controlled by who knows what, or force me to eat mice droppings. They did have ways of putting you in restraints so you couldnât move, for VERY long times, I think, I find myself just now remembering, because I still find myself letting go of even THAT feeling when Iâm free like I was to walk upon the air that blesses the grasses on top of where I was âburied alive.â Just stuff Iâm forgiving. And then there was a woman I somehow charmed in that city. She liked me, and they got concerned, so they had me murdered in a inquisition like setting. They SURE had ways or torturing people. I still have to laugh a bit being in some device where spring sent prods flying at your face. I seriously had to laugh that people would waste their time thinking this did who knows what. I supposed I ended up dead, and my body end up who knows where, but I donât know⌅I donât think I was gone, I might have returned just like Tina Turner and quite another fewâŚâŚ
How did I run into this lady that I had charmed, and who was quite a few times very kind to me. Again there was a bit of memory that hadnât hooked up yet. Years ago, when a group of Russian people came to theCollege I was studying Russian at as a minor, the morning before, not having slept at all, I think, maybe talking to my friend all night, a good friend, she asked me to bring something to an office at the school, and I ran into a precognitive dream. I had had a dream where Mikhail Barishnikov was playing walking up some stairs, tired with a line of tension in the back of his neck, a red line, perhaps what Iâm still letting go of myself, he was going upstairs, where one would assumingly sleep, then he had turned into a woman, and was playing the guitar. A secretary at the college office had EXACTLY the same shirt on as in the dream. I actually asked her: âare you Misha?â and then shared the dream. Of ALL things I later did run into Barishnikov himself. I had gone to A Course in Miracles group where we are supposed to read from this book all the time, in such a situation (something Iâve shared with Jesus himself to give him an escape, sorryâŚâŚ time changes) I started perverting a sentence beyond what it was meant to mean. And then mentioned to another guy that the next miracle would be that the book sprouts arms and legs and comes to life. If thatâs what I said. Anyhow I said it would come to life. During my youth, we often saw Barishnikov play the nutcracker in Tchaikovskyâs ballet on television. Which is akin to something coming to life, which the nutcracker does in Claraâs dream. I actually then, ran into this woman, who had become âBarishnikovâ in the dream. The one with the colored blouse Barishnikov was a bit annoying, he right away propositioned me, actually, and I didnât respond. But I had run into this woman a few times, even when I was quite disturbed she still was very empathic. She volunteered at a soup kitchen, and once noticed I just missed a bus, and told me how she felt bad for me, but I had caught a bus right after that. We did have a conversation regarding that soup kitchen, how she had to work the whole day. I STILL actually wasnât recognizing the woman from a dream, actually. Then, still not knowing itâs the same woman, I recognized her as the woman I had charmed, back there in Bulgaria, and walked up to her, in the store Iâve mentioned in the other post. I mentioned the history, of how I had charmed her, and then wasâŚ.you-know-what, but ofcourse Iâm still alive, and its OK, and she smiled quite unrestrainedly, what others might not like it not being restrained in any way, and said: âI remember you quite wellâŚâŚ.â It doesnât stop there, because talked to Tchaivkosky through a medium, who was in spirit the whole time, about what was reported as his suicide, and he was good about it saying Iâd make it, asking me whether the medium wasnât like everyone else, since I had become too attached to such, and would have to get away from it, then he told me I would make it, and the medium woke up with tears on his face, not knowing why. Turns out shortly thereafter a letter from the Tsar was found saying that if he didnât do himself in, heâd be exposed. Tchaivkosky had told me that the last two years of his life were very difficult, that someone made a sarcastic remarks, and that was the straw that broke the camelâs back. But since, as with Virginia Woolf, I did find heâd returned. I would say reincarnated, but being born into a body seems a bit bleak, as if its not the other way around, we add to Heaven, allowing what remains a home there⌅Heâs an upcoming violinist, also into chemistry, and when I mentioned Monatomic Gold, within a short time Nicolas Flamel became an angela mong us who helped me let go of stuff, even Jesus wasnât able to, to be completely honest. And with Flamel there was no problemâŚâŚ. Monoatomic Gold being the philosopherâs stone.
Did I resurrect as the pied piper of Hamelin, and help a bunch of children out of the same situation I ended up in? I had to look also, that when Mark Twain wrote Huckleberry Finn, whether I was in spirit, Vaslav Nijinsky not having been born yet, because: A man who I identified as an angel among us, because he had that kind of happiness, offered me overalls, stating it was a gift from a friend. Or just they were a gift. I didnât take the overalls, but having noticed his happiness, found he perfectly fits this guy https://marktwainstudies.com/john-t-lewis-mark-twain-a-friendship/ and then ran into him three times (along with Mark Twain on the bus, the same expression he had when he had to describe how Huck had learned the multiplication table up to 6 times 7 is 35), the second time I ran into John actually mentioning I had run into a friend of Mark Twainâs where he had offered me the overalls. The third time there was another âclueâ from Heaven, but involving a book I wrote, a novel, not the only suchâŚâŚ. I only recently noticed I had taken on an accent that would be Huckâs, just after I was offered the overalls. Now I didnât manifest out of the ethers or the wave particle duality to be Huck, in ways, thatâs a gift from Heaven, but I donât know what happened after this incident, this supposed tragedy in BulgariaâŚâŚ I think itâs possible that what remained more real than the physical, that it might have come back, but I donât knowâŚâŚ. It happens⌅Iâm still shaking off the fettersâŚâŚ I simply decided to talk a walk today, a quiet calm gentle one, feel my head resting on my shoulders, as those muscles are healingâŚâŚ But I had to laugh that as I was walking, and there were dogs in a house along the way, dogs that couldnât âseeâ me with their physical eyes, but noticed they were barking exactly to the rhythm of my gaitâŚâŚ. Once while talking to a piano teacher who remained a good friend of mine, a mouse came out and was just staring at me, I mentioned this to the teacher, who replied that she was really scared of mice. Other such with different animalsâŚ.. and children I can relate to at a level where they donât have to forget that Heaven existsâŚâŚ.which is where they come from and pure creativity. And love, to use a severely abused word. In fact EVERYTHING we think otherwiseâŚâŚ.how could that be what gave us a soul?
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More what a good therapist might understand is related via empathyâŚ.. rather than looking for victim, perpetrator, but simply empathy, which shows thereâs another way, and also would heal the perpetratorâŚ. And if they werenât SO FIXATED on âknowingâ whatâs real and what isnât, or needing to be an authority regarding who is a victim in order to get points for being anyoneâs savior, than not only would empathy be empathy, and the whole way it manifests find the possibility of being understood, even when itâs going on with someone else, or in general when hidden and it approached the function of fiction where it CAN be exposed, then time might not have to repeat itself in order to do what itâs there for to begin withâŚâŚ.
I havenât even looked at this site since Saturday, or late Sunday when the stars were outâŚ..
Thereâs another thing going on with coffee, because after running into the actress that played Mrs. Dalloway, the character that originally was Septimus Smith and her together, but Virginia Woolf split up, I ran into Virginia Woolf herself, or rather himself.
Bare with me, it does have to do with image games, and what you get for being a victim and the whole incredibly deception and mind game going onâŚ.
I had already written a composition inspired by her, called mediant. And sorry I should record that soon, havenât done it. But in âcomposingâ or in reality stepping into this space inspired by Virginia Woolf, knowing that she had committed suicide by loading the pockets of a coat with stones then stepping into a river, because she had started hearing voices again and DID NOT want to end up being institutionalized again, one can only surmise what kind of torture went on there. There are enough other people, like Josef Hassid, you can deduce what goes on thereâŚâŚ But in writing this composition, and thinking about a coat, I decided I should buy a coat, a suite coat, a nice comfortable one: one for her that she could wear, and find comfort. Like what one wears in an easy chair, so she HAD someplace to go. This I had done, enough years ago that shortly after running into Vanessa, I had already started going regularly to a store where there was a worker who first inspired me by the essence of purity I noticed in him. I have to add, although I first skipped adding this, as if reason had to bend over to appease indoctrination, but between writing the composition and when I ran into Vanessa Redgrave who played Mrs. Dalloway, there was enough time for Virginia to emerge in the form she did at a particular store. I heard him talking once, with others, and the sound of his voice made me smile so well, being that there was a matrix of poetry around it, a labyrinth, what I might call a matrix, although that word seems a bit harsh, itâs more like what vines do, like words climbing up a trellis to have enough color and dance of movement to create wonder and delight, which they did, or butterflies creating the colorâŚ. Seriously, sounds like Iâm a bit exaggerating, but Iâm not. It made me smile to hear it. I did notice that, perhaps for want of such truth finding resonance, he would have been drinking something with red food coloring, and this made him a bit hyper and anxious, maybe not aware that going along with such social de terminates as whatever pop was that red, and apparently readily part of âsocietyâ might be affecting him.. It was funny to see him being one of the greeters who was supposed to check whether someone was shoplifting, but the expression he would pull to show that he was âSUPPOSEDâ to be suspicious was quite an example of actingâŚâŚ I think I had already seen that he was Virginia, and then I ended up at a redbox machine (a company since gone belly up because of streaming services), that had videos you could get for not too much, and he [Virginia] was mopping the floor there. I didnât say anything, but he was sensitive enough to know I was going through something, I think the mental health system AT THAT POINT would have said I was psychotic, but that certainly is a bit more than they know, have bargained for, or even can diagnose when I go further here. He says: âYouâre nasty⌅f@#$(k meâŚ..â You know what the @#$( fill in. Which to see the words there sounds like something completely else given the kindness in his words, and the empathy. I didnât go for that, but said: âI need a cup of coffee,â and went and got one, to find him still there, mopping. And then, having created the scene, I saidâ
âI have your suite, not one that you can [I donât remember whether I said âwouldâ or âfor pilingâ but you get the drift] pile stones in to commit suicide,â follows a pause to come in at a higher phrase note, âbut a comfortable oneâŚ..â I probably took a breath, or soâŚ.âItâs a musical composition ,actuallyâŚ.â and I might have mentioned it was at home in my closetâŚ.
Time passed, I came out of what would be called âpsychoticâ and with the same tone pure as any child that Stradivari once got out of my mouth, when I thought I was being completely incoherent, or part of myself did that since Iâve learned to correct from thinking âthatâs crazyâŚ.â albeit thatâs another story, from a different time, but when he [Virginia] was at the self checkout, taking care if something wasnât working or someone needed help, I said: âI think youâre Virginia Woolf.â In JUST such a tone. And then he said, firmly and decisively, but again much softer than the kind of assault such words make people think is going on: âTHAT WON!â
The kind of nonsense ensued that goes on ANYWHERE where thereâs this indoctrinated idea of someone is crazy or not, even when another greeter said: âVirginia was in loveâŚ.â the same greeter would belt out âGET OUT!â as if who knows what else was going on that never was. Because heâs supposed to think so, and gets points for it. I noticed Virginia at one point had died his hair blond, and was playing with some friends close to I think a bus shelter or terminal, maybe with a car, noticed deers the same, when they were trying to get out of a situation, with fences around, I mentioned to him that I had seen him with blond hair and he looked like the younger Mrs. Dalloway (thatâs another actress in the movie directed by Marleen Gorris the younger of the same character), and he replied: âthat was funâŚ.â Only a few chance encounters since, perfect with timeâs resonance, him looking like a character in a book I wrote, or when he came into a bus I was in I noticed both of us had the same expression of thought that entail the structural (again I donât want to use this word, because itâs not something contrived, itâs what happens more by itself), [structural] change of one character becoming two. And when I ran into the actress that played Mrs. Dalloway the elder, I recognized her from a precognitive dream, where she was a sylph like image, being seemingly see through and up in the air above me as I exited a movie theater, where the exit ramp doubles parallel to itself so the incline this involves doesnât double the length of the ramp. Two parts next to each other, two characters, and I didnât want to use the bathroom and the concert hall that had such a ramp because there were too many people, and then going to the elevator I ran into the other character [Mrs. Dalloway, Vanessa], she asked me whether I was taking the elevator, I replied I wasnât supposed to recognize her in the dream (thatâs part of the plot, Had Septimus known there was such compassion as with Mrs. Dalloway things might have been different for him, but the whole interaction expressesâŚ.. what it expresses). And she told me that she also wished all the people werenât thereâŚâŚ Her sister had just passed awayâŚâŚâŚ.
I wonât even right now go into the extremely abusive stuff going on, as if there was ANYTHING else going on when I frequented this store, or their alarmist nonsense, which ended up being so extreme itâs like the wheat from the chaff in the whole city, would anyone believe such an insult to malarky. Or nonsense, orâŚâŚ..
There was another boy whose soul I touched in with, involving thought, that was Alan TuringâŚ.. at the same store. Regardless, neither are working there anymoreâŚâŚ I think they ended up somewhere where they could breathe a bit betterâŚâŚ.
To make it short, at the self checkout, I had started wondering whether there was monitoring going on, just playing, or whoever I wonât mention because it gets too complicated looking for a playmate for her son who already is put too much into a monarchal role (when he isnât even the crown prince, who is now King had a child before this but is still hidden because of image games look up Simon Charles Dorante Day) that in having to have an image he would have difficulty just being himself or humanâŚâŚ no, there wasnât such going on, although I had included Chekhov to be along with this âcrown princeâ who isnât really (we havenât had such ridiculous royal struggles in history yet, as to who is supposed to get the âthroneâ), and did run into him, I think. But THAT portal was in a different areaâŚ.. his mother came from an East Block country and started a really nice store. I wondered whether there was some basement where this goes on from, had asked and no, thereâs only a tunnel, which I decided might be sort of a bomb shelter, just because thatâs where theyâd be, not some need, really. Just of there was one, it would be there, for whatever reason beyond bombs. But as dadaism goes, I decided to act this out and simply ASK them whether they had a bomb shelter, knowing they didnât, but heh, this takes whatâs otherwise just a non reality based scenario, and might give it further resonance. So, I asked: âDo you have a bomb shelter?â the lady who looked like she SERIOUSLY needed to brush her teeth some more, they seemed rather yellow from the coating, she laughed, and said she didnât know, and then I said: âAnd Prince William and Chekhov arenât down thereâŚ..â then sat down on a bench and carefully gently pried apart layers of the paper knapkins or towels one gets all over the place, which I donât throw away but keep, putting them in my pockets, usually have such is there a spill going on anywhere, and itâs handy; but then I found out there are separate layers to them, a whole motet of layers, and then I liked to draw on them, then dip them in wax, and thought they looked not too much but enough like parchmentâŚ.. These people (one male one female) in uniforms show up, asking me: âDID YOU ASK IF THEY HAD A BOMB SHELTERâŚ.?â and they wanted to know why I had such a question, plus it had been remarked that I had been acting weird (I didnât make any remark about me being weird, or that most people actually probably knew me from having seen me on TV as part of ongoing protests against wars, I only know this because a number of my sisterâs friends said that had seen me on the news often, I otherwise wouldnât have known. I didnât feel like telling them it was a dadaist exercise, and I knew they didnât have a bomb shelter, so I said something about there might be some need (wasnât even at that point using that for any sarcastic insinuations), I just thought they might have thought that was too out there, weird, although I might be wrong one can only hope. Then along with that they said they were concerned about mass shootings, and I AGAIN withheld saying anything, such as: âwell, you MIGHT want to stop escorting people to asylums, where they get doped up with what statistically correlates with such, if you are worried, or rather âconcernedââ which AGAIN I might be wrong about whether I could share it, might still try to bring out such somewhere, but one can so easily be found non-compliant; and I HAVE been asked as soon as someone says they think Iâm whatever, whether Iâm taking âmedications,â and then they ask whether Iâm having âtherapy,â and MIND YOU this was involving someone, MORE THAN ONCE, thinking something was going on that wasnât, and even if itâs clear that THAT person reporting you as such is having non reality based thoughts, Iâm still asked such questions. NUMEROUS TIMES! Along with these sherif people numerous times asking me the same question: âare you leaving now?â or when simply asking for some ID, and I went quite briskly for my satchel [ was a bit toked up on coffee] having made some movement that caused him to say that was for his own protection. AGAIN as if something was going on that wasnâtâŚâŚ Well, after that, itâs all over the city, added other stuff thatâs taken out of context when the other person or people or institution was more inappropriate, or non reality based, all because thereâs this label of âmental illnessâ on my side. The Wheat from the ChaffâŚâŚ.. And whatâs going on where itâs hiddenâŚ..[?] That ALSO was at the same brand of store as the other, but in a different location, sort of the other side of the city.
When I ran into Mrs. Dalloway in a dream Vanessa was playing that part, but I was Vaslav Nijinsky, and now AGAIN would I go into what happens when I as a simple human being going through what Nijinsky was diagnosed with, and bringing it into reality, where life brings times for me to see thereâs such resources as Mrs. Dalloway, as Vanessa Redgrave, who supposedly could have made it âbiggerâ did she not make a few points when she won an oscar she wasnât supposed to, that IâŚâŚ on the âotherâ side I encounter such âbiggerâ winnings from celebrity actors playing image games, after simply talking about the idea I was âNijinsky,â with people while living in an area where thereâs this place called Eastown in Grand Rapids, Grand Rapids having this duality that it might be the biggest small town on the planet, and thus there arenât any paparazzi, thus these commodities for their image can come here and haul out what they wouldnât in other places, or itâs a place where even I can be free of â because of THEIR behavior â ending up turned into something thrown into the media commodities arena, and not have enough life to actually exist to experience what I needed to to heal, would I end up in the tabloids, like any number of people, say Amanda Bynes for example, and then encountering TWO top billed actors, having heard I talked about being Nijinsky, and BOTH of them, who wouldnât really break the mold they allow themselves to be stuffed into as media commodities enough to be free of image and thus might actually THEMSELVES experience what they were acting outâŚâŚ I mean Johnny Depp having been De Marcos, and feeling free too act like Iâm part of all of that, as if one just takes a pill in the asylum, and bingo he remembers who he is, or Benny and Joon as if ANYONE is given a space for themselves like Joon was, or Brad Pitt in 12 monkeys glorifying supposedly rebellious behavior, thinking heâs cute acting out Akithesia or Tardive Dyskinesia, as if itâs cute, and thereâs are MORE of such movies where someone acts out what the drugs do, as if this is âmental illnessâ sat for example Katie Holmes acting out what neuroleptics do to make someone docile, with the voice of a drugged up child in âTouched with Fireâ âJohnny Depp and âBrad Pitt,â BOTH of them making intimate sexual advances towards me, but not actually taking care to reach out to me as a human being, and Johnny Depp acting like some sexual favor is akin to what he gets at his birthday party, because heâs a good boyâŚâŚ.BOTH of them all over the media because of the problems they caused with their x-wives where their x-wives are terribly demonized. In both cases I report here, I have to say itâs my opinion, from what Iâve read regarding such, otherwise you get you know what. Angelina Jolie wanted to get the report that was made after the plane incident, and filed for this using a name that shouldnât have caused it to come out (I think Jane Doe), and then of course it comes out, and sheâs made out to be some home wrecking demon trying to ruin Pittâs life. The children completely free on their own to make choices, and they donât want to have anything or much to do with Pitt, and itâs HER fault AGAIN. She clearly has to say what went on in the plane because the report gets out, which she didnât want to, to begin with, and AGAIN sheâs something evil, because she says how it was perceived by her and the children, although Pitt thought it was just some drunken binge, like when he and George Clooney used to see how mad they could get each other, and Pitt joked that when Clooney had gotten someone who checks luggage at an airport by looking through it in Israel to start taking apart his suite case, and say in an interview there would have been âblowsâ involved, as if this is funny, or âfight clubâ or mentioning that he had a ânormalâ childhood and beat up on his younger brotherâŚâŚâŚ. Angelina DOES NOT want to have to sign a NDA, because she feels what happened shouldnât be suppressed, and even when Pitt could have bought her share of his âambitionsâ from her without such an NDA he wonât and so because it also involves Alcohol again, she has enough of it, and sells it just to not have to deal with all of that. As if sheâs supposed to suppress what the children also clearly remember and made them decide to themselves to detach from Pitt. AGAIN sheâs made out to be something evil. And Amber Heard. One only has to have listened to the trial to see how the multitudes understand NOTHING about real trauma, because the jury [American] JUDGED her on it, as if she wasnât supposed to respond like someone does that really HAS BEEN traumatized. Or how Johnny thought she was having some affair with everyone she worked with, would stalk her at the movie sets, called the studio, went on and on about her having something with Frank so and so, canât remember all of this stuff, WHY should we have to [oh yes, James Frank, had to ask google what went with Amber Heard and âFrankâ]; and none of that was going on at all, in the meantime, as was his habit, now not only with illicit substances (his amazing âcaretakersâ would say that cocaine made him calm, or get him whatever he said he wanted), but with prescribed, over the counter, not over the counter like caffeine and alcohol, who knows what else (probably LOUD JARRING music as if that challenges authority rather than calming down to be yourself), where he even stated he turned into a âmad injun,â (A guy that filmed a movie as Tonto, because Tonto was so bullied, then characterizes Indians as such) not sleeping a whole night or multiple nights. Well, when under such influences, when the short term memory is knocked out with all of that, multiple ways, and there still is the need the brain has for dreams, to work things out such, and the substances knocking out REM dreaming where otherwise you have sleep paralyses and a person can dream without acting such out, Johnny instead acts out his nightmares, or whatever he conjures up as going on to go with the feelings he canât process from his youth, from Hollywood and what heâs supposed to be that can only make someone feel discarded as human. Any unprocessed notion of whatâs going on, the feeling of abandonment from his youth when Amber or anyone else isnât what his desperation thinks it needs to escape from it, he assaults Amber NUMEROUS times, doesnât even remember what he was doing because of the controlled substances knocking out his memory, added to this the image heâs supposed to maintain to be âresponsibleâ jarring against what he did but would have to take some steps OUTSIDE of such image games to remember, or even conceive of (no, I couldnât have done that, Iâm âJohnny Deppâ bullying someoneâŚ.noâ, when poor Amber saw it all and was hiding it from the media because he promised to change: something they both called the monster. He was found to have assaulted her how many times which was decided by a legal system in England from people who KNOW what trauma is (rather than a jury from the one area Johnnyâs lawyers saw would be most favorable, who couldnât have already have had other notions, couldnât have been free of the media circus, and certainly werenât routined in knowing how someone with trauma responds to such retraumatizing, and no magic pill with your âangelâ Marlon Brandon administering it in a movie changes all of that from Johnny Depp in a state he canât even remember without for him too much trouble, while he had been assaulting what he thinks is some evil against him, but only what he projects on poor Amber. In reality what could happen to anyone given perspective on Johnnyâs life, and Amber understood originally, then even in the second trial said she still loved Johnny. So, where is the courage? Is this what Hollywood can do to someone, or being a Disney hype (I donât know AGAIN at this point WHY I am supposed to even know WHO these people are, I had to look up Don Juan De you-know-what to get Brandon to come out of my memory: by the way Amber Heard actually, according to me, as art goes, is Jane Austen, and Angelina Jolie is Emily Dickinsonâs sister, which is stuff I can remember, and want to). No some jury of people wouldnât know how someone who has really been traumatized would respond, the same as any schoolyard, the same probably at how many churches?, at political meetings etc. and how such a person responds (not that the English system is perfect, or any other is), but that was because JOHNNY sued a tabloid, and Amber HAD TO start telling the facts, stuff that before that she had been hiding from the media. Amber is supposedly ruining his life, when without THAT court case he would have retained the Magic Beasts role, his career wouldnât have faltered in other areas, and then he turns it into what he HIMSELF recently called a soap opera, which maybe is an insult to suchâŚâŚ What does this say about media image games? What does this say about Hollywood or Disney when someone ruins their âcareerâ trying to maintain an image they use as a commodity rather than being honest regarding what someone else was forgiving him about, stuff that would happen to ANYONE that had the kind of youth Johnny Depp did, and then looked for escape in such image, or the controlled substances he did, neither of them working other thanâŚâŚ I mean its like he would need a partner that goes along with his âHerculeanâ drug habits and image, then resorts to the same without seeing what it does to either, and would they kill each other or end up like I wouldnât know what to call such âpowersâŚ..â I donât think Bonny and Clyde fit, actuallyâŚ..
And now as false memories go, and Hollywood and the image game, thereâs also the case of Woody Allen that never happened, not even from the legal system is there such a âverdictâ, and what the multitudes believe, same as Johnny Deppâs insult to a circus or a soup opera, or even a sitcomâŚâŚâŚâŚ
https://mosesfarrow.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-moses-farrow.html
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Marey OMalleyâŚ. “I think the influence of the legal profession who has no knowledge base at all for understanding human development and psychology has created some harm with all of this as well.”
The legal system does have a slight nuance allowing for understanding, sometimes, regarding….. what I try to explain……
I perhaps should state that I go into the nuance here regarding how whatâs deemed a mental illness, to give some perspective on all sides, and it might seem to others it goes into left field, or off topic, but in reality it doesnât, nor is it off regarding the initial postâs topic, you just have to read to the endâŚâŚ. And I know thereâs stuff difficult to believe, but youâre not going to convince my Iâm crazy in that Iâm non reality based have I actually experienced them, nor am I going to believe such miracles go flying into oblivion when others say or think or try to convince anyone they arenât real. Itâs a good thing they donât, and it doesnât scare me, no matter what others say to the contrary regarding their realityâŚâŚ.
Since the legal profession seems to usually believe that further traumatizing someone (put them in jail, fine them, set up territorial disputes) who is expressing trauma, one could argue, that then further trauma is made out to be the solution to their behavior. But then you do have a little nuance when “mental illness” is involved, which actually is said can be caused by trauma, marginally, or more than that hopefully acknowledged, but then you have the added traumatizing of forcing “treatments” that in reality cause further trauma, again. Every psychiatric drug causes chemical imbalance, causes biological disease. In disabling natural brain functions it disables marginally and temporarily the expression of symptoms (along with a whole lot more, but people are so alarmist about symptoms they see this as being a profit, as do the drug companies)…. and so you have this interim where they say a chemical imbalance is being treated qualifying this because a real chemical imbalance (that usually isn’t really shared with informed consent) has suppressed symptoms, then after that interim everything statistically gets worse, although again you have those in a statistical minority that get points from the mental health system as being “functional” in a society that does all of that.
But yeah, you do have a slight nuance when someone is deemed mentally ill, as if not everyone has experienced trauma, and acknowledging that as an influence isn’t a challenge everyone has in understanding behavior, forgiving people, and moving away from what causes trauma, rather than investing in it more in order for population control.
Now I, after experiencing stuff that I wasn’t supposed to know beforehand, not knowing how to interpret that and needing someone to talk to about that rather than it being dismissed as nonsense, and the whole aftermath (I also had severe trauma from controlling parents, controlling school system, controlling social situations, bullying, ridiculing etc. etc.)…… I ended up being diagnosed as “schizo-effective” after getting slightly paranoid regarding stuff that WAS going on, but I couldn’t talk about, my mother actually having talked to a psychiatrist friend of hers, as if what was going on that I talked about beforehand never had been (all she had to do is talk to the neighbor lady, to find out, EITHER ONE)…. But then comes the nuance, you see. Being trained as a musician, already (not that that’s necessary, it’s innate to the human condition, you can learn all over the place, or simply from being alive), I had that outlet, and instead of it becoming entertainment, I could experience how music is healing, all the arts actually, more than religion, I might say, because you’re born with the response, no one has to tell you what to believe in or what not to believe in, or what “Heaven” is etc. Science, in observing natural harmony, might also be the same, actually. I was put on disability, and so didnât have to deal with deadline, etc. only the drive of wanting to accomplish what I was told I had in me, already. Also by quite a few spirits via a trance medium. Before diagnosis, I then had been with a trance medium, and talked with Mozart’s mother so many times, the last time I talked with her, and she brought up a time in the Renaissance when she was my wife, and after this supposed drill where she as a spirit through a medium is supposed to ask me what questions I have, and I completely couldn’t think of a thing, only shrugging my shoulders at the pretense of the drill (spirits also are just friends, not some resource for special guidance etc.) and when she just started talking about a memory, I actually wondered whether she had flipped her lid, since I had now gone to the at least THIRD medium, or fourth, (fifth sixth!? or more depending on what you call communication through a medium 7th at least, but that includes what any simple child can do given they are fresh from “Heaven”). OK THAT’S enough musical chairs, and the first response of mine was: “What did you say?” as if I couldn’t hear her, which I had no problem with, I just thought it was…….. since THEN, we haven’t gone through another person so much, actually, maybe I hear her better that way, no more static from any else’s “ego” perhaps..⌠That did actually emerge, hearing her better, although again it would be âSchizoâŚ.â
OK! So there is a nuance there allowing me to relate to art at a whole other level, because I couldn’t function with “schizo-effective” to work with this system. And really to say I couldn’t have, isn’t some false interpretation to avoid working, because I worked INCREDIBLY HARD, more than others that were functional actually. AT times, knowing I could lose it or go and “compose” and just let music be there, giving my responses, my brain, my fingers, ears, eyes, everything something to do, rather than feeling I had nothing to do, was just……. dysfunctional, dismissed, marginalized, disenfranchised…… I went to what surrounded me with a white light (I think it’s sometimes called the white light of Christ, but whatever…… it’s light from forever, all the colors come together to make white, all the chakras, all the colors that even science measures with spectroscopy to see light years away what stars and planet and asteroids are made of, what all comes together to make this white light, not something that can be extinguished, only you have to go there, with your mind, you can’t just flip a switch, it’s more the eternal sun reflected in the Universe, in the stars,transcending time and space…… I could be working on a piece of music, then step away from the computer, midikeyboard, synth etc. be making a meal, and then I would hear the same music having taken a new turn, but that would be the same as there’s no difference between inner and outer voices as in “schizophrenia” only the inner voices are more real THERE. I wouldn’t have to “compose” just listen, and not dismiss this, and THERE the “composition” comes from…… YEARS of hard work, having music to share, the best musicians in my area from the local orchestra playing my music, but then I was still……. No, the button to turn me on and be “entertaining” just wasn’t…….. or what they waned to exploit, or turn into their way of how it should be whether my behavior or the musicâŚâŚ…the ego to make certain judgments of how to whatever……
I avoided therapy, my parents were both psychologists, both have passed on beautifully, my mother gave therapy, helped women with sexual abuse extensively…. But so many friends of mine I had seen torn apart by the mental health system and “therapy.” People I could talk to, who had also the same opening, portal, doorway, avenue to something beyond, and could respond without the judgement most of the rest of society had, weren’t even able to NAVIGATE through such to be “functional” at times, or ever……… And then I watched them torn apart by the system, forced on treatments that abused them terribly, and when they couldn’t rebel without the fear of more of it, or knowing that was the result, might switch into compromising themselves. VERY DISTURBING AND TRIGGERING STUFF TO WATCH! Also this friend I shared above in another post……. So I never had therapy, avoided it while on SSI, would go in and out of what might be called psychotic episodes in order to integrate what now has been. Even just coffee drinking, not only does it interfere with Gaba that makes you tired, but increases serotonin and dopamine, and then recently I find out there’s often mold in coffee. Even going off of it, although I only drank decaf, would I be doing this the whole day, even thought like five cups of decaf is about as much as 15% or 25% at most of a normal coffee cup, I think the mold was affecting me. And this was going on for years, probably, plus smoking. The bodyâs respond, when given some freedom, does slow you down, or take you out of the rational thinking winding you up to not allow the immune system to take care of the mold, so after an episode, I would come out of it, I think the mold causes some mild infection in the brain, and we have this stuff all over in our body balancing us out, actually, so Iâve learned to get away from this rational stuff winding me up, to be rational where itâs rational but not indoctrinated or fear based. Irrational to allow for non fear based rationalityâŚ..
I have to add something totally insane here, by the way. Regarding Coffee, I didn’t know that Tina Turner had died, would in these “episodes” play around with a certain Mozart aria, had my turntable record player fixed with a possible device playing around with the wave patterns the electric motor for the turntable that would otherwise konk out after an interim (there’s supposed to be green stuff that prevents it from working butâŚ. Despite that it works every time since I introduced this little device that has aâŚ. um⌅ little mythological implications with its electromagnetism although extremely smallâŚ. something else regarding electromagnetism that has a different relationship with time, like miracles do then collapse a time, as stated in A Course in Miracles, or rather dissolve time that would otherwise be repeating itself when a person has fear thatâs causing them not to see what itâs expressing from here https://acim.org/acim/chapter-1/principles-of-miracles/en/s/53?wid=toc a few of those principlesâŚ. Principle 13. Miracles are both beginnings and endings, and so they alter the temporal order. ²They are always affirmations of rebirth, which seem to go back but really go forward. ÂłThey undo the past in the present, and thus release the future. (ACIM, T-1.I.13:1-3) principle 47. The miracle is a learning device that lessens the need for time. ²It establishes an out-of-pattern time interval not under the usual laws of time. ÂłIn this sense it is timeless. (ACIM, T-1.I.47:1-3) Please understand, that Jesus can be a bit taking on too much having been brainwashed that HE was this prophet that HAD TO BY by his family, and when it says principle â32. I inspire all miracles, which are really intercessions. ²They intercede for your holiness and make your perceptions holy. ÂłBy placing you beyond the physical laws they raise you into the sphere of celestial order. â´In this order you are perfect. (ACIM, T-1.I.32:1-4)â In reality thatâs about everyone is Christ, has a soul from the other dimension where it canât be destroyed, everyone is the resurrection, as well as the second comingâŚâŚ Iâve had to go beyond him to integrate what he was trying to represent, which is OK with him but thenâŚâŚ.. And thusâŚâŚâŚâŚ Regarding Coffee, I was playing around with this one aria, that had been sung in Mozartâs time, would do it improvising on the violin with the record player (I think I canât share it because of copyright stuff), but was fun. Iâd act like the violin squeaking away was the pig replacing the Soprano (funding for Opera is down in the USA), and other stuffâŚâŚ Here unadulterated by my spaceship turntable, which I canât share because of copyright issues from youtube, from where there were people that could afford the soprano https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruM8d4vcGec âŚ.. But then, after doing this for years, different layers added on to thisâŚ.. Iâm at a Goodwill, and thereâs a really nice black lady standing there, talking to a worker. The worker Iâd experienced before moping around the store thinking she was a good girl and a blessing like a tea kettle presuming everyone wants what itâs warming up for, all sorts of these âreligiousâ songs, like some annoying thing the wind has to do creaking around the corner of a house, when the wind would rather be free of itâŚ.. and thereâs an incredible amount of gossip about me, whatever Iâve done, getting radical with people trying to exploit me, with the end result they just werenât up to it, and then Iâm of course called nasty or inappropriate. I donât know this lady, and sheâs moping around thinking sheâs being good sounding like some muzak that an irresponsible person forgot to TURN OFF. Before, she was going on, and then she say, seeing me: âHeâs nastyâŚ..â I had enough of it, and remarked: âWowâŚ.. she howlsâŚ..â Then she says Iâm nasty again. WELL! THAT being beforehand, actually. Time âpassesâ and Iâm there at the store again, turns out there then a nice Black lady talking to her, I could see. I could see the soft energy around this lady, they had an interaction, and as the lady was leaving, the worker says: âShe says sheâll buy me a cup of coffeeâŚ..â out loud so everyone can hear, and then looking at me: âHow do you know I need coffeeâŚâŚâ Either during this, before or after, I motioned to the woman, sort of a wave, when you at least lift your hands but not too much, to not make it look indoctrinated or officiated but simply human, and smile, again not too much. Just friendly, and weâre both dealing with not turning into robotsâŚâŚ What I saw who is listed as the savior do walking into a bus, and then I went and talked to him myself, not knowing no one else could see him. first entering the bus I heard a voice says: ânow heâs really cryingâ because I knew I would fall asleep for a moment, but then woke up after the short spurt and sat next to him to talk, regarding someone I think I knew was his brother back when itâs not overâŚâŚ. I motioned to her the same, likehttps://acim.org/acim/chapter-1/principles-of-miracles/en/s/53 any child would to lighten things up. So the Black lady left, and I remembered it. And then I read that Tina Turner had been listed as dying a week before that. Went and looked, can you imagine you can do this on Wikpedia listing everyone that premiered said Mozart work, and sheâs listed here, which I had already starting thinking was TinaâŚâŚ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterina_Cavalieri
âCoffeeâ
It was TinaâŚâŚ..
Emotions also, especially in art, they transcend the conscious mind, they resonate with forever, they have an intelligence that brings life together beyond the ego, they form whole worlds âUniVerseâ a song that blesses us with the experience of what potential is there to be creativeâŚâŚ. They transcend boundariesâŚâŚ I donât think they are limited to being non reality based the way people cut them off, not even trying to see what the mind makes out of them, even when expressed completely non violently, even when others try to intimidate one to think you canât see any reality there⌠fiction wouldnât exist to have any meaning, neither would imaginationâŚâŚ…art is real⌅
Now, I do have to add that before I went to get ANY therapy, before I found people again I could trust, knowing past lifetime stuff, which isnât then past, itâs just from forever. I did start, on my own WITHOUT therapy, start to have what might be called âfalse memory syndromeâ or âsatanic scareâ stuff going on. But then, not going into past lifetime stuff that then WOULD be gone, a dream you wake up out of, I canât say I didnât encounter ample evidence that such stuff IS going on, whether or not I was or had been going through it, again regardless of pastlifetime stuff, stuff like a dream one wakes up out of to see the human condition the spirit transcends all of itâŚâŚ When simple empathy is made out to be âschizophreniaâ and one canât be picking stuff up that whoever is trying to hide, as if it controls the human condition rather than we all have the ability to transcend and heal it, even in the perpetratorsâŚ.âŚâŚ. WellâŚâŚâŚâŚ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDopA7go7nk
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Dear dear Renate, human emotions are amazing vehicles of multidimensionality. The very fact that we can feel, and it determines our responses, or that we can reason and what we think makes a difference, is a veritable gift from where it came from: nature. God, the UniverseâŚâŚ to denigrate that and the condition of being human with the phrase: âjust a â human emotion,â as nothing. What are you missing? Emotions are amazingly wonderfully multidimensional, they effect everything you do, every response that any nerve has, are related to your memory, how you respond, the choices you make, what you take in to your life to have the experiences you have. They have an intelligence that transcends conscious thought. There would be no relationships between people, between them and their environment, between them and time, no music, no art, no poetry, no storiesâŚâŚ..
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Dear dear Renata, please feel free to completely tell us how antidepressants helped you, how you came out of a state you felt was keeping you from life. I’m sorry if it feels like you can’t express that, as if we are saying you don’t deserve something that helped you. Or that you are wrong. Please don’t feel anyone here is wanting to take away from you the fact that you deserved something to help you. Please don’t feel violated that we have a different angle on it. When there’s more variations on what helps a person, that only creates more potential, and doesn’t take away from anyone. There’s a lot of stuff we simply can not just ignore, nor would we be responsible would we, the same you would feel irresponsible did you not share how antidepressants have helped you. There’s a lot of stuff that involves the lives of other people who need another approach, and might otherwise not find what helps them…. And there are a lot of adverse reactions to antidepressants.
A girl working at a coffee house who could talk to me, said she could not tell her parents antidepressants made her violent, and they didn’t allow her to quit, and she had to leave the home. I’ve shared what someone told me about the Columbine shootings above Feb.15th. Steve mentions kids in foster care facilities who can’t express what the antidepressants do to them. People committed to an asylum often can’t. And more. It’s very human, when we’ve found something that helps, and yet there’s further details confounding or contradicting that, to feel that’s not fair, but life isn’t that limited. I don’t know how it could exist to be the experience that it is were everything that uniform……
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The amount of people having experienced and encountered what’s labeled as false memories, and have had such horrendous stuff, whether from sexual abuse, or mind control experiments involving such, and the rest of what society thinks it’s not nurturing when it believes it needs to train, pay and maintain others whose task is to wage trauma as population control (military, judicial, grades in school, religions going on about who goes to Heaven or Hell or who knows what, who gets paid and who doesn’t, etc.) and they can’t express what happened to them without being called crazy, or wouldn’t even feel free to remember given how they’d be treated would they, or are still controlled by their abuse because there’s no place for them to remember or in remember would be punished by either their abusers or the system that says it would protect them from such……
And then there’s the other side. A friend of mine who had two warring parents, the one abused the wife that the police were called regularly in her youth. And he actually was the first one that had their daughter admitted to an asylum, from what I remember because she was kissing someone in the halls of the college a friend of his reported her as doing. She was carted around from institution to institution for awhile. Came out of such in her later 20s, still regularly ending up in such places, although was fine most of the time and much loved and popular. But the mother so hated the father, understandably, that she coached the daughter as if she had been sexually abused by the father, followed a therapist doing the same. I remember talking to the mother going on about this as if she was uncovering something precious and would get points akin to the pastel colors on a hallmark card or the sentiments in so many family oriented movies with appropriate themes and then heralded as a wonderful saint who could smile at and bless people from her goodliness. Years passed, the daughter still going back and forth between acting like the overly loving mother or the aggressive willful father; after awhile she uncovered what the sexual abuse was. No, the father hadn’t sexually abused her, she had been on a boat with him, a trip or cruise, and had been raped by one of the sailors or crew on the boat. But with the mother coaching her to find something against the father, and the father’s anger, she was stuck for years trying to appease one or the other side. Then, even after the father had died, the mother had her daughter AGAIN put into an asylum, I had told her and the “friends” around the poor daughter what could happen was she once again put into an asylum, that they could loose her, but the mother even stated that she and Lilly’s father [posthumously] both thought she should be in the asylum. Then, because I had warned them, and also exposed the amount of lying that went on to have her put into an asylum, rather than acting like their concoctions of what she never did, but they thought she would, as if she had, and had told the police etc. then I’m made out to be something dangerous……. This is after I warned them that they could loose her, and she committed suicide a few months after having been put into an asylum, along with quite a few lies. That while she was still be “helped” by these “friends” that had her committed.
WHERE is a person supposed to go with all of this? I wouldn’t be able to warn them what happens when someone is institutionalized without being labeled as who knows what, can’t say that what others say really happened to them isn’t from the satanic scare or a false memory.
There was a whole slew of stuff coming out when the satanic scare, and false memory syndrome was introduced. There are a whole populace of people who know why, and they have their own network. I do have to add that again, when all sides are wanting to harness control, or a penal system set up to excuse using trauma as a means of population control through punishment or reward what’s called deterrent, and this sets up AGAIN the very institutions that excuse and promote the study of mind control through such means, whether for good or for bad, that it’s self perpetuating, especially for the “good” side……
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Somehow, the fact that the moon isn’t hidden in contrast to the data regarding antidepressants and school shootings under the label medical confidentiality, I think this might have something to do regarding correlations between the moon and shootings. Also, the moon was there the whole time, I think, or would it or should it be introduced in one’s awareness regarding this or that treatment.
Apart from whether the moon should have a black box warning label that it can turn people into lunatics, or that we should project the Pepsi logos on it so people don’t know what it is anymore……
RFK didn’t say there was a causal link, he said you can’t make that statement because proper research hasn’t been done.
How many people have responded now that RFK said something he didn’t, to cover up whether or not proper research should be done?
Here AGAIN, from the article:
“RFK JR: I donât think anybody can answer that question, and I didnât answer that question⌠I said that it should be studied⌠because thereâs no science on that, Senator.
SENATOR SMITH: There is, Mr. Kennedy. Science shows that there is no link between school shootings and antidepressants. In fact, most school shooters were not even treated and with those that were, there was no evidence of associationâŚ
RFK JR: I donât think you can say⌠that, Senator. Because of HIPAA rules, nobody knows.”
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Heh, I don’t mean to sound like YOU are ignoring a disorder, not the other guy……. That doesn’t work to begin with, I was trying to offer a solution, actually, but had to wade through…..
My point actually was simply waiting and see that life isn’t made to make us suffer. Instead of anesthetizing a hurt foot, wait till nature heals it, and see that the hurt is there to allow for the healing. If someone is sad, and it interfere’s with society deciding, or even paying them, regarding “functionality,” instead listen to them, they might have insights that are more pertinent than thinking everyone should be “happy” about how the system is working, running, set up etc.. And when the actually workings or emotions, reactions or responses are thus understood, rather than seeing them as a disease, then this might bring true positivity to the human condition, rather than discriminating against things people find difficult or disruptive or “inappropriate.”
The “disorder” I was going on about possibly being ignored might simply be that. Insight not allowed or labeled disruptive, patience dismissed as unrealistic, the illusion that at least something being done is better than “nothing…..”
I don’t find RFK ignoring someone’s suffering when he asks for real research to be done, would the information that’s hidden because of “confidentiality” be given forth. Certainly not when there’s the rest of what’s ignored, such as the long term revolving door syndrome with antidepressants, or that someone is pulled out of therapy, by the drug companies, when there’s not a drug intervention. Despite everything that’s known regarding long term results, what’s hidden because of “confidentiality.” I do think he’s ignoring people’s suffering when he promotes the slaughter of people in what he thinks is a just war. And there might possibly be quite a bit of insight missing regarding what he “thinks” is going on, or even is allowed to entertain as to what is going on, or what he thinks is a loss for whatever reason would he acknowledge [it]……
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When you have hurt your foot, and you can’t walk, because the foot is healing, is this also a disease. You can test the lack of “ability” same as with any “psychiatric” disorder, the result being adding up to such diagnosis. Which IS the cause with ALL psychiatric disorders that there is NO clear proof they are biological, added to this when biological trauma is added, which CAN be labeled clearly as a biological disease CAUSED by treatment, there’s then USUALLY call for more of what in REALITY caused a biological disease, all in order to “treat” one.
Further more, yes a wound may be a sort of disorder, but calling it a disease etc. or treating it the way it is, regardless of what you call it, that’s a whole other matter.
It may be YOU who are denying disorders, and when they can be treated by means that expose what denies not only the disorders but what treats them to heal, you go on who is denying what!?
One can use pain killers to stop the foot from hurting, walk on the foot for a period that gets in the way of the healing, and then in the long term, when the foot hasn’t healed properly, or it’s the pain that’s made out to be a disease rather than why it’s there, what’s the result!?
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Here is the whole paragraph regarding the fragment “Shane” quoted as being “frivolous.”
âThat this House is horrified at the recent increase in school shootings; is puzzled that the English language media failed to mention that in the Finnish tragedies, Mr. Pekka-Eric Auvinen said that he âate SSRI anti-depressantsâ which, he said, made him feel âaggressiveâ; notes that the perpetrators of 28 other school shootings, including at Columbine and in Minnesota, were also on anti-depressants; notes that anti-depressants, especially selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), have been proved to both sweep away self-regulating internal inhibitions while triggering explosive acts of violence and murderous behaviour; and calls for a study of the links between SSRI use and almost all school shootings and a rethink on the wisdom of the mass prescribing of anti-depressants to young people.â And one can click on the last sentence above quoted, for a link.
Numerous times it has been stated, as well as in the above article that the amount of involvement with psychiatric drugs isn’t really known because that information is withheld due to confidentiality reasons. ADDED to this, it’s constantly stated by the drug companies and the mental health system that more of what has been shown to correlate with the problem is necessary to get it to stop. (28 listed in above paragraph). With the amount of correlation already present, it would be responsible to look further. But then we get the responses shown here AGAIN that: “but the homicidal ideation is not linked to SSRI in any case or study” when in reality no such case or study is possible without the information that’s withheld. THAT IMHO I wouldn’t even call frivolous, that’s highly HIGHLY irresponsible, if not corrupt, biased filled with financial nepotism etc.
This is honoring confidentiality when the treatment could be correlating with causing a spike in the problem, but any study in such can be prevented by “confidentiality.” What does this SAY about informed consent to BEGIN with!?
Further more. To bring such logic as to when it’s going on here and not there this means the correlation with whatever isn’t going on, or is, or would, or wouldn’t, or whatever: since it’s stated that school shootings are a somewhat solely American phenomenon, “BTW, school shootings are a uniquely American misadventure, at least in terms of the frequency and tolerance.” and it not going on so much over there someplace else where antidepressants are also prescribed, although it’s not stated how much. Should we then also go stating that when women don’t wear Burkas in the United States, mostly, although coffee is popular in the US and Islam countries, that you can say there’s no correlation with the two in the US and “Islam” countries where women wear Burkas (if that is even true)? Or if the fashion starts in the US, for whatever reason, that it’s because of coffee? What if suddenly they stop drinking coffee over there, or over here, or on Mars? THEN what kind of correlation is there!? Because coffee is popular in both countries or situations? But we haven’t looked at Mars or Pluto…… I mean it WOULD have to correlate there too. Is NASA ready to start delivering coffee to those places so we have accurate info regarding Burkas!? Different countries are different countries, when one thing happening isn’t going on so much in the other this isn’t some magic as to cause and effect. Perhaps there are other correlations with antidepressants in other countries. As well as other things leading to whether school shootings are going on or not, which there would be quite a number of, not that an additional cause negates the other.
“FRIVOLOUS”
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A simple simple look into WHEN the black box warning labels were put into place, and WHEN the antidepressants were approved would show ANYONE that the one is 1987 the other 2005. So, this statement is completely not true, never has been: “There has always been a disclaimer on these drugs that it could cause bad side effects in younger adults. “The drug companies tried to prevent this all the years they KNEW the side effects were going on, and they had ALREADY turned up when the initial trials were going on. ADDED to this, regarding HIGHLY addicted drugs that most people who are on can’t get off of without side effects often severe causing them to stay ON them. To simply say get off of them is quite insensitive. Added to that, neither general practitioners nor agents of the mental health system are particularly keen in knowing how to help someone having difficulty getting off such substances….
Neither is this a partisan issue regarding the mental health system at all, and whoever said what regarding Sandy Hook can hardly be put into a category of “Republicans,” as little as that what Hagee says is “Christian,” or that this statement of yours categorizes “the masses:” “I have been on Zoloft and never suicidal or wanting to kill anyone, I think the masses feel the same way.” And NO, I’m not “Republican,” in general I don’t vote for either major party in ways constituting one big “Business” party, and go for Greens.
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I know, Cat…. You’re welcome, be well……
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I think that Peter Breggin, when he testified in court cases regarding the influence of antidepressants on people who otherwise didn’t behave such, and returned to their other self when off of them, that this might start to point out what’s not really been looked into.
When you look at the difference, same as perhaps with alcohol, that situations a person wouldn’t have associated with violence, that the antidepressants, whether it’s the initial increase in serotonin with the re-uptake inhibition, or the decrease when the body stops making as much because of the inhibition…… that this might act like when anything is disrupted, like shaking anything up, that connections are made that otherwise wouldn’t be, and that people, when they believe violence is a tool to be used, start making such connections that otherwise wouldn’t have been going on. You’d actually have to talk to these people in a way that allows for such inner searching to be going on, but I don’t really see that’s encouraged or understood with how any kind of “research” is going on. To find out simply, “I wouldn’t have thought this was necessary, or wouldn’t have done this,” compared to when there wasn’t the influence of the drug. But then, one would have to also point out that people who don’t invest in violence, they don’t have this problem added to that the logic regarding non violence, or pacifism, and that AGAIN is something research is going to shy away from, and would rather find pacifism “crazy.” As if such a community can’t exist, so it’s not even considered.
And I don’t find it crazy to consider that when people are supposed to believe violence is a necessary resort, and deterrence, and trauma policing such, that perhaps taking an antidepressant in order to avoid the real feelings inside causes the eruption of violence that is considered crazy or criminal. But then what if such investments in such (violence, deterrence, trauma) weren’t condoned to begin with, whether they were considered appropriate or not? There might be no sadness to need to escape from as if one has to loose one’s humanity to be functional, nor the need for finding a solution that causes the disruption that shows what such investments cause when at large to make “crazy” or illegal connection, placed there as appropriate but falling prey to what happens with……
“I don’t want to have to feel this way, don’t want to have to think about it, it can’t be that non violence works…..”
You shake things up, as antidepressants do with serotonin upon initial use and after “stabilization” or when going off, and that belief that such is necessary finds a crazy or criminal connection…… shake anything up and that belief makes connection that weren’t there before……sane, criminal, crazy whatever……..
And yet it remains at large considered “crazy” to think one is safe without such a belief, such excuses for violence.
And I don’t see the real experience or data of how time resonates when such beliefs are discarded actually freely shared, without it so often being called crazy, or non realistic belief in miracles etc. Or denied, even when there is clear data…… whether sociological or physical
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To have something prescribed as a medication, have insurances pay for it, also have insurances inhibit therapy when it’s not prescribed, have this forced on people in an asylum setting, have them mostly prescribed without informed consent, added that these “medications” cause chemical imbalance while being falsely made out to be treating them, have these “medications” approved under a number of severely questioning if not corrupt means…..
Well yeah, alcohol, street drugs like cocaine etc. might find the same audience, as say sugar has etc. Should these also then be handed out be insurances under false advertisement? Because there are certainn people where that: âdisabling of normal functionâ can help some people depending on the case at hand.” Is this some convenience to make them “medications.”
Here again, is what went on when these “medications” were FDA approved, although I understand I’m supposed to be intimidated by now to instead be disassociating from such truths as I’ve been told I’m being repetitive, saying nothing, making this site look bad, and “making it less likely for other people to read comments or engage with audiences on articles.” when I don’t disassociate:
The plethora of devices used to approve of antidepressants, are the same kind of games.
1) In trials used for approval often enough a sizeable amount of people had to leave the controlled group, because of the side effects of the medications, this wasnât counted. In fact sometimes more had to leave than stayed.
Prozak side effecs http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/prozaceffex.html
And Paxel http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/paxileffex.html
2)People in the non control group who got better the first couple of weeks were taken out, as if they then werenât depressed, although had been tested before hand. This ALSO rigs the odds despite the pseudo scientific label of âwashout period.â And why would it have to be done, were the drugs so helpful?
3)Because they werenât getting the results they wanted to, people in the trials were taken who already were on psychiatric drugs, so they were either used to having their neurotransmitters messed around with, they had been coerced into acknowledging the drugs helped them or labeled non compliant, which could mean commitment, or they indeed found the drugs helpful. In any case, this isnât about an antidepressant anymore.
4)The same goes for people in the control group being given a sedative because of the amount of akithesia, this AGAIN is not about an antidepressant, but a drug cocktail already.
5)The period in the trials where those in the control group had to get off of a drug that wasnât approved yet wasnât reported at first, but when looked into it showed how people were having severe withdrawal symptoms. Couldnât sleep, couldnât stay awake, fevers, seizuresâŚ
6)There were many trials that took place, but only those with favorable results were used, and then there was still only a marginal efficacy shown, AFTER all of the game playing aboveâŚ.
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It’s amazing how you mention it’s not bad to be addicted to something, and then completely skip the fact that most likely, when the person was MADE addicted to the substance they WERE NOT given informed consent. This is found to be just fine, to report blah blah blah about antidepressants, not really say how addictive they are, not say they cause chemical imbalance, not even say they interfere with normal functions of the brain. Then when a person has been made addicted to that, and have to compromise themselves or deal with withdrawal symptoms, then all of a sudden it’s fine, what’s going on that a person most likely was NOT told would be the end result. There’s the mindfreedom hunger strike already 2003 because of the false advertising, which they APA completely excused, came up with the same attempts at shaming someone you have repeated here. https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ I repeatedly have brought such things up, and you left a post below, as if I’m being repetitive, bringing this site down, not saying anything, having posts that are incredibly long……..(I do have the longest posts, or are you referring to something no one else can see?) Who do you think you’re coaching? I am supposed to believe it? I’m not here to be brainwashed in such a fashion because I say things one isn’t supposed to mention when they are part of an assumed reality, or just stuff people don’t want to hear, because it challenges their compromises.
When what is “helping you” is turning off natural articulate parts of the brain, to get a person on such they have to be told the opposite of what it does, that it causes a chemical imbalance, rather than treating one. And when this is shared, every time it should be, one BY YOU is called repetitive, because they aren’t going to negate simple honesty, and informed consent, it becomes clear what’s going on….. including there seems to be an implication of: “stop telling me the emperor has no clothes one, that’s repetitive, you’re saying nothing because I don’t want to hear that and just ignore it so call it nothing, making others ( who don’t want to hear whether whoever has whatever going on ) not want to engage with the “audience” here, and bringing this site down, when one isn’t going to want to turn of normal functions of the brain” (one would hope healthy is what normal means) healthy enough that it is interested in articulate science, rather than scientism that says that being given a chemical imbalance is treating one….
Annoying isn’t it, a healthy brain that the normal functions aren’t hampered!? (note, I’m being sarcastic…..)
You REALLY might consider not trying to make people think that when they are articulate enough to not be intimidated as if they will be punished to say things others don’t want to hear, because those others disassociate from such necessary challenges, that there is some loss of community……..
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For those who have blinders on, and can’t see the connections others express, calling them super long and unfocused when it goes into areas they haven’t the experience, willingness, or open mindedness to engage with, this isn’t a brainwashing site. And deciding, as if you know, what engages people or doesn’t, as if you have been monitoring this site, have gotten whoever wants to fill out the kind of forms one gets so often regarding what gets them to want to engage with this site and what doesn’t, and know who reads what for whatever reason, what makes it more or less likely for others to read, comment or engage with audiences on articles; even were you involved with the science of creating click bait, knowing what words to use, what colors to make what part of pages to steer eyes in whatever direction, how to get people to interact, or “engage” with audiences possibly made into such trigger happy addicts, no matter how large of an audience you were concocting thus, what would this be accomplishing was anyone doing otherwise? And what would be bringing this or ANY other site down?
People express themselves as human by the way, not as what’s going to engage with a following inarticulate enough to call anything beyond their parameters of comfort too long, unfocused, repetitive and saying very little etc….., while in the meantime indeed saying nothing, being unfocused and repetitive themselves. When anyone doesn’t understand what another says, refuses to be flexible enough to open the avenues of understanding necessary to understand what another is saying, or look into data that they otherwise are discriminatory against, and then feels the need to stereotype or discriminate, yeah, it’s easy to say they aren’t saying anything and are repetitive, but that’s the person discriminating against what another says, not what the other is saying… I think…….
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Dear “Renate Smith” For something not to be a poison, it would have to be proven that it treats a chemical imbalance rather than causing one, but as yet, all that really has been proven is that it [antidepressants] CAUSES one, INCLUDING the real data regarding recovery (in the long term there’s more of the revolving door syndrome than without any “treatment”, or read the recent article how antidepressants in reality double the chance of suicide, or any of the other articles that are based on science not on consumerism, and what sells)….
ALL the people who have had their lives ruined, or their loved ones have every right to call such agents poisons.
YOU may call that stigma, but a person addicted to any substance, alcohol, nicotine etc. that has been PROVEN to be a poison, might say the same thing. In fact many of the street drugs that say back 3/4rs or more of a century ago that were prescribed, and had the same amount of people heralding them, those are now street drugs, like cocaine, meth, etc. More poisons.
And then you come here and attack someone who says spirituality has shown her there’s not as much depression as we are told. And you call it ridiculous. Would anyone truly look at the statistics, rather than bantering around catch phrases like you do, and have done dotting this site with what everyone who has looked into true statistics, science, and something beyond mainstream push, they would know what ridiculous is. Would anyone look at all of that, it’s clear what HOPE says, and there are any number of ways to express that, be it spirit, truth, intelligence, perspective etc.
You make this statement, which is like the golden idol of the drug companies:
“There are physical illnesses, so why not mental or do you only believe what you can see?”
Oh, this is believing in something you can’t see, when it is heralded as treating a chemical imbalance, in reality causes one, in the long term correlates with more relapsing, but heh, you don’t believe in it, you only believe in what you can see. The emperor’s clothes included, then….. anyone that points such out only believe in what he can see…
If it works for you, all the rest can be ignored?
No, antidepressants have been proven to cause chemical imbalance, they disable normal function of the brain, and long term they cause more relapsing, and as you can read here double the chance of suicide. To say all of that addresses a mental illness because there are physical illnesses is the one thing that’s ridiculous, NOT Hope’s statement regarding spirituality. You might as well say you fix a loose shelf with a hammer and a nail, so who says there aren’t mental illnesses, or a car runs on gasoline, so who says there aren’t mental illnesses. And in CONTRAST to denying poisons are poisons, and heralding something that causes a chemical imbalance as something treating one because otherwise someone only believes what they see: There ARE however physical things that heal “mental illnesses” and one of the things statistically is non treatment with “medications” psychiatry doles out. YOU being of the minority that it works for DOES NOT change such statistics. Nor does the marketing, nor the addictions, nor the consumerism, nor that in reality since the implementation of the biological method there’s more mental illness, this DOES NOT correlate with needing more of what correlates with the spike. THAT is why there’s this book called Anatomy of an Epidemic. Exercise, healthy food, not being around people causing alarmist responses, what went on in the first asylums by the Quakers where it was only a peaceful healthy place (not a drugging zone), Soteria house, Healing Homes of Finland etc. etc. The “Mental Health” Industry taking the asylum setting the Quakers started and introducing what correlates with the spike (THEIR medications) and then convincing everyone that means more treatment needs to be forced on people, this is believing in something one can’t see, because there are “physical” illnesses!?
And you make statements no one can make [unless uninformed, brainwashed, or indoctrinated], for example: “And, yes, there can be side effects, but they are not usually severe and the alternative of living without them tends to be MUCH more severe.” Statistics again prove otherwise, that more recovery happens without any such controlled substance. DESPITE the games the drug companies play, such as taking people off a anti-psychotics or neuroleptics, taking them off cold turkey, then taking others used to such and putting them on another drug that works enough the same that THEY don’t have withdrawal symptoms, but those compared to turkeys for a lack of description DO have withdrawal symptoms, thus supposedly the drugs work: yes, then you can go on about something tending to be more severe. THAT is called unacknowledged withdrawal symptoms. And THOSE come from a chemical imbalance the DRUGS caused NOT “the disease.” Same with other addictive substances.
The plethora of devices used to approve of antidepressants, are the same kind of games.
1) In trials used for approval often enough a sizeable amount of people had to leave the controlled group, because of the side effects of the medications, this wasn’t counted. In fact sometimes more had to leave than stayed.
Prozak side effecs http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/prozaceffex.html
And Paxel http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/paxileffex.html
2)People in the non control group who got better the first couple of weeks were taken out, as if they then weren’t depressed, although had been tested before hand. This ALSO rigs the odds despite the pseudo scientific label of “washout period.” And why would it have to be done, were the drugs so helpful?
3)Because they weren’t getting the results they wanted to, people in the trials were taken who already were on psychiatric drugs, so they were either used to having their neurotransmitters messed around with, they had been coerced into acknowledging the drugs helped them or labeled non compliant, which could mean commitment, or they indeed found the drugs helpful. In any case, this isn’t about an antidepressant anymore.
4)The same goes for people in the control group being given a sedative because of the amount of akithesia, this AGAIN is not about an antidepressant, but a drug cocktail already.
5)The period in the trials where those in the control group had to get off of a drug that wasn’t approved yet wasn’t reported at first, but when looked into it showed how people were having severe withdrawal symptoms. Couldn’t sleep, couldn’t stay awake, fevers, seizures…
6)There were many trials that took place, but only those with favorable results were used, and then there was still only a marginal efficacy shown, AFTER all of the game playing above….
That all of that worked for you, that doesn’t change any of the science or statistics. In fact, most people who STILL will be presented with antidepressants as a viable solution will NOT be told anything truly akin to informed consent……
And YOU certainly aren’t giving that…..
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In 2003 mind freedom international had a hunger strike challenging the APA to come up with proof that antidepressants treated a chemical imbalance. They couldnât do that, you can read about this here: https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/
That was 2003. Then in 2005 the drug companies were forced to have a black box warning label put on antidepressants, this was expanded in 2007.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/sep/21/medicineandhealth.lifeandhealth
https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j3697/rr-4
In MULTIPLE cases, regarding whether antidepressants or other psychiatric drugs were involved that evidence is withheld for reasons of confidentiality. This is QUITE remarkable regarding correlation that in any other setting one would find it irresponsible to not share. And so when Kennedy is told by another politician that there is scant evidence, he responds that one canât say this, and the other politician actually makes a statement that no one can make. When THAT MUCH information is withheld itâs quite impossible. But thatâs how it goes with those coached by drug company lobbyists.
Beyond that I have my own anecdotal story to tell. I was on a bus, and heard a man with a sarcastic tone mention his doctor had suggested antidepressants. I went and talked to him, knowing why he would have such a tone. The man had his own story beyond that. He told me he had had a foster care facility close to Columbine, and both the kids in the shootings would go to his foster care facility, and just play pool. They told how they were bullied at school, had gone to the principle, who sent them to the sherif, who send them to the principle, etc. Nothing was done, which happens so often, if not mostly too often in any school setting involving bullying. And then the ring leader of the two as is reported here already was put on an antidepressant, had it changed to Luvox close to the time line before the shootings. And the man on the bus said that he had complained about these âmedicationsâ making him angry at everyone. His parents, his friends, his girlfriend, everyone, and the doctor said to just keep taking them. Then the shootings happened. There was a court case pending, but that was bought out by the drug companies. That was 1999âŚ. How much more is missing, from then, and afterwards as well!?
Of course the idea has to be there, that violence solves ANYTHING, but this society is so full of such excuses that would one believe in non violence most politician would make this out to be crazy or unrealistic, consequently those thoughts are floating, such excuses are potentially there as motives in how many peopleâs mind, and then with antidepressants, how they jiggle up first causing with serotonin reuptake being suppressed more serotonin, and then later, after the body has noticed this to start making as much, causes less serotonin to be produced, you get first too much, and then a deficiency. With such disabling of the brain, and also REM sleep being suppressed, you get people responding without having the physical brain activity to think things through (oh, I feel fine now, canât see why I was upset before), and beyond that the area of brain activity used for REM dreaming, where thereâs sleep paralyses, and people can work out their emotions in a dream, this is suppressed, and you can have the whole array of beliefs going on in dreams starting to drift into oneâs awareness. Someone sees a fictitous danger somewhere, believes itâs real, and there you go. Or responds without thinking. Peter Breggin has testified in numerous court cases that exactly that was going on. I lose sight of how many times Iâve read something inexplicable going on in a news article involving violence, and then a statement such as âso and so was being treated for depression,â or suchâŚâŚ And AGAIN all of that is withheld from being reported because of confidentialityâŚ.
So what is it doing to be. Are we going to honor what Jesus, Buddha, and so many other simple normal people have seen as how things work, to honor non violence and the potential that allows, and works, despite people saying that unrealistic and crazy; or is it these âantidepressantsâ confusing peopleâs minds, making them think that a disabled mind is a happy one, but then you have these in explicable acts going on that are covered up for confidentiality reasonsâŚ..
Is that whatâs going on? Who thinks that happiness is turning people into robots susceptible to programming? Why do we need all of these excuses for violence, and what kind of people does that quake on all sides of it, whether itâs those implimenting such âtreatmentsâ or the results in those being âtreated.â
But would any answer be made to this, the information thatâs not given out would have to be shared, and perhaps people would have to see that non violence IS possible rather than all the excuses for it. As yet, I donât see that any gun has popped up on its own and started shooting people, or is that yet to come with AI!?
Again, hereâs how antidepressants were approvedâŚ..
1) In trials used for approval often enough a sizeable amount of people had to leave the controlled group, because of the side effects of the medications, this wasn’t counted. In fact sometimes more had to leave than stayed.
Prozak side effecs http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/prozaceffex.html
And Paxel http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/paxileffex.html
2)People in the non control group who got better the first couple of weeks were taken out, as if they then weren’t depressed, although had been tested before hand. This ALSO rigs the odds despite the pseudo scientific label of “washout period.” And why would it have to be done, were the drugs so helpful?
3)Because they weren’t getting the results they wanted to, people in the trials were taken who already were on psychiatric drugs, so they were either used to having their neurotransmitters messed around with, they had been coerced into acknowledging the drugs helped them or labeled non compliant, which could mean commitment, or they indeed found the drugs helpful. In any case, this isn’t about an antidepressant anymore.
4)The same goes for people in the control group being given a sedative because of the amount of akithesia, this AGAIN is not about an antidepressant, but a drug cocktail already.
5)The period in the trials where those in the control group had to get off of a drug that wasn’t approved yet wasn’t reported at first, but when looked into it showed how people were having severe withdrawal symptoms. Couldn’t sleep, couldn’t stay awake, fevers, seizures…
6)There were many trials that took place, but only those with favorable results were used, and then there was still only a marginal efficacy shown, AFTER all of the game playing above….
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I notice that with this paragraph, I typed, I seriously get something akin to lost or “duzzy” (was “supposed” to be dizzy, hit the “u” rather than the “i,” but then there’s fuzzy as well, as how things start to look) trying to navigate through all of the cherry picking. No insult to cherries, and sorry I can’t find better terminology actually at this moment.
“Clearly there are many quite desperate people looking for help, and then those who seem to feel relieved when theyâve been given a chemical imbalance, even though told they are being treated for one, and the chemical imbalance they didnât have before treatment (WITH âantidepressantsâ) suppresses symptoms. AGAIN, you can say that you see a REDUCTION in suicides, but whatâs the long term result, and WHAT is the âREDUCTIONâ you are talking about, if itâs in regard to what usually happens with âantidepressantsâ or in âtherapy?â OUR TREATMENT HAS LESS SUICIDES THAN OTHER TREATMENTS doesnât mean that no treatment has less, which is again here stated that that IS the caseâŚâŚ..”
“Our treatment has less SUICIDES THAT OTHER TREATMENTS doesn’t mean that no treatment has less,” is actually supposed to be:
Our treatment has less SUICIDES THAN OTHER TREATMENTS doesn’t mean that no treatment has more….. Given that the statement is supposed to mean their treatment causes a reduction……. but a reduction compared to WHAT!?
Sorry, with this jiggling around not even looking at what no “medications” statistically correlate with, who knows what is being used as reference.
Also, perhaps the above article shared that those who haven’t been made to think they need treatment, although encountering the same problems as those who do, that they commit suicide less. What does that say about what’s labeled as “treatment” IN GENERAL!?
And to speak of a reduction in suicides when: “When appropriate we see much measurable benefit and a REDUCTION in suicidal behavior and completed suicides” again completely doesn’t say whether this is in reference to the amount of suicides in general when “medication” is introduced, or whether it’s referring to when no medications (or even therapy) is introduced.
THAT is where we’re at also, when most reported suicide attempts are receiving “medications” and somehow there’s a reduction in the amount of consequent suicides completed in general when medications are introduced according to this phrase: “when appropriate”, then one can ignore that with no “medications” whether there are completely less, either way. We don’t know that, it’s not at all clearly stated. And again the information here shared in this article by Peter is clear, in comparison……
The statement made by Mister Cole isn’t clear.
This statement also is quite something: “neither I nor anyone of us in our psychiatry group feel pressured to prescribe unless we determine itâs appropriate” Who is determining what? To begin with is there even informed consent going on that such “medications” CAUSE chemical imbalance, when they are said to be treating one? Beyond that, at what point can such even be hidden, and ANYONE decide its appropriate to administer without informed consent, and informed consent can be denied, along with what’s shared here regarding statistical information, long term outcome etc.
HE is determining what’s appropriate, not the patient!?
AGAIN “there is a reduction in people committing suicide because of our treatment,” when it’s completely not shared whether no treatment has less of the problem which AGAIN is what the article above states……..
So that should read, perhaps: “there is a reduction of people committing suicide when the suicide is caused by our manner of treatment [using “medications”] when we determine medications are appropriate, this in comparison to the usual statistics of how many suicides the medications cause.”
Is there informed consent with all of this ETC.!?
We don’t know that that’s not the case, and all these games played with words to hide statistics……….
CONVINCING someone something is going to help them is quite different than whether or not it really is. AKA actually READ above article…….[perhaps]
And sorry regarding the mixup of whether I use positive or negative (in this case also, I wouldn’t necessarily call the negentropy, it’s just being overloaded), I hadn’t caught that yet, and it happens in other posts, but in context it does become clear what’s referred to, despite the mistakes…..
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the link I tried to share above for some reason didn’t show up in blue (at least on my computer click on links usually are blue) and as a click on, so I try see if this works:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QcUh_ezANjEPvXCUKdLMEVbALV7YTCBy/view?usp=sharing
or here
the hyperlink text
Well, I see both work. Apparently one has to supply a certain amount of space (more than just one open space a character would otherwise be in), for a link to be recognized as such…..
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Does this make anyone else laugh? If there’s a “solution” implemented that correlates with a spike in the problem, where pray tell is the rebuttal missing? Or thoughtful responses? And who is not allowing such responses? And what does “hope” have to do with this?
This statement: “Adding a thoughtful response and, perhaps, rebuttal to the authorâs important points would add to the discussion and deepen our understanding.” needs to be made EVERYWHERE where what’s reported here is missing and not allowed. Which in reality, objectively is in most places labeled as being medical.
Note: anyone can, unless there’s copyright issues, then you can make up your own post similar, clip this response, this post: “Adding a thoughtful response and, perhaps, rebuttal to the authorâs important points would add to the discussion and deepen our understanding. I hope the newsletter can provide this.” and then copy it (or use your own similar statement) in ANY place online where what’s here exposed is heralded as being a solution or a treatment. Because where rebuttal is missing is where such a statement should be made, not where it isn’t.
I find this absolutely AMAZING again, the extent, the barrage of attempts to distract from what’s really being said when the truth comes out.
1) Anyone in an asylum, that has become ward of the state because they had a normal understandable, potential enlightening response to life that might bring out natural intelligence rather than socially instilled indoctrination (not conforming to statistical based norms, consensual reality deportment, the status quo….), would they have to deal with any psychiatrist there just about, and would they share the information clearly stated above that is supported statistically and scientifically, the psychiatrist is free to, and often mostly would decide they are non compliant to “treatment” then forcing them on what in the end makes things worse. And we get what’s called the revolving door syndrome, more of the problem causing alarmist responses used to say what’s causing more of it needs to be implimented because then “SOMETHING” has been done. In the meantime the same nonsense of how something creating a chemical imbalance (the “medications”) is treating one is made out to be what it isn’t, all to disable a brain that might be able to make sense out of what is being suppressed. But any information actually pointing any of this out is not allowed, just like in a fascist system, all for the sake of allowing, and coercing and forcing treatment that correlates with more of the problem, to then say there’s more need of it in general. But heh, when someone points this out in one of the only areas that it’s allowed, the very information ANYONE would need to know that’s hidden, then we get the above response, and there’s talk of “a thoughtful response.” In other words don’t actually tell me the emperor has no clothes on, you have to gentle say something that might get me to in some odd way entertain this as a faint possibility, otherwise it’s insensitive and thoughtless, because I can’t deal with the truth. Or just don’t actually contradict me, that’s not thoughtful, I’m too brainwashed, or simply dishonest while profiting from the lie, as if there’s some loss not to “profit” from such.
2) The place where rebuttal is MISSING I have already mentioned (and true scientific and statistical data), but there’s no real responsible attention to that, or what would indeed heighten EVERYONE’S understanding, bring what “would add to the discussion and deepen our understanding” but no, such phrases have to be used to make sure that God forbid someone should actually state the truth, we have to have again what’s only been allowed to be stated, shared, reported where those being forced on a treatment that makes the problem worse might find out that statistically things get worse where upon they are told they need more of what statistically gets worse…..
The very attempt to make out that here where one is completely allowed to challenge what’s said is missing counterpoint, when in reality it’s not missing here at all. Counterpoint is allowed here in contrast to where what here is being exposed as making things worse while saying it’s making things better is yet making things worse.
That’s called fascism, fundamentalism, brainwashing, etc…
I guess sacrificing a virgin or beheading someone (look see, no signs of mental illness after a beheading, all symptoms are gone despite the severe side effect) just is a bit extreme these days as we worship the pill, the status quo and consumerism.
Anyone being responsible enough to contradict this is not being “thoughtful.”
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I had a friend who actually facilitated a writer’s circle at a place for those who were disenfranchised. A ministry that since has gone belly up, like so much recently. But he had told me that he was mad when he woke up alive after his first suicide attempt. He also had been forced into treatment by his family, I think. He had given a speech, I think as president of his highschool at their graduation, and when they didn’t like the truths he said about what the education was geared for, they turned off his mike, rather than letting him finish. He did still write for the local press, actually, and his writing was absolutely pristine. He had actually gotten with a literary agent, was writing a book, but had a problem with his editor suggesting quite a change. I don’t remember whether it was a change of a character’s gender or something more dramatic, which I can easily see would be highly annoying, as I’ve written myself already four novels I haven’t looked into presenting to literary agents (excuse me Dickens, Shakespeare, etc. in fact just about all of the writers that have given us the ground work for literature had no need for such), and I’ve read SO MANY paint by number books with highly fabricated plots, characters, morals, situations etc. offered at say Barnes and Nobles, also by ex or current literary agent editors, I rather shield myself would I a have to deal with such dissecting my work, just to keep it alive rather than mechanized. He said he had trouble with drinking, and after the suggestion, he said something irate, and I don’t know if he hung up, but then was dropped by his literary agent. I sincerely doubt there was real interest in the quality of his work, which was extremely high. When I shared stuff, he was extremely articulate in seeing the structure of what I was expressing, which he could do in acute detail, so I could see how he could be annoyed would someone start distracting him to such a degree he would lose have to compromise time given to his actual creativity to deal with such suggestions. I guess I haven’t even processed such a loss, because I only suddenly heard that he had committed suicide.   And I know that all of the “treatment” he was forced on, the addictions to controlled substances he was coerced and forced into having to deal with, the consequent loss of mental acuity not being allowed when having a healthy enough brain to make those oppressing him paranoid anymore would his true instincts and reflexes emerge. I guess I haven’t processed his death, I somehow thought he was [IS] Scriabin, and going back realize how what I experienced of him, his pristine clarity, how it reflects music he might have already have given to the world before deciding to try once again. WELL, regardless of objectivity, whether “Scriabin” is part of us because that’s the nature of art, and it as a resource for the human soul, or him, or me, or you……. Well, so in remembering this friend, I recorded this, fourth take….. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QcUh_ezANjEPvXCUKdLMEVbALV7YTCBy/view?usp=sharing  And in steeling myself from my tears, I realize he was there when I heard someone play the Grieg concerto this past Friday….. because he is part of the emotions of art, and the healing it brings and THAT remains…..
I do find it perhaps beyond disgusting ( and typical and worth ignoring), that two people come to this site, don’t really acknowledge the severity of what’s shared in this article, and then go on about the cosmetics of language, which clearly is avoiding the real issue when people aren’t getting the help they need. Or simply left alone and given some legroom to find out what’s going on with them……
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You haven’t explained at all why using the term committed causes stigma. I looked at the AFSP sight, and regarding “treatment” the first thing they say is that “Mental health professionals have specialized training to identify and understand problems that may be causing you discomfort or putting you at risk, and also in helping people with a variety of mental disorders. They can prescribe medicine, or can connect you with someone who can determine whether you need medication.” from here: https://afsp.org/find-a-mental-health-professional/ Since your response is mostly cut and paste from over there, here is from your post: “some may find this petty” or “Call me sensitive” or “Thank you for your kind consideration,” don’t cover up the fact you are quoting from a site that does exactly what this article says causes more of the problem. In reality you are trying to make out we are “insensitive,” “petty,” and “inconsiderate” would we be articulate enough to actually look at what’s being reported rather than tilting our head sideways with a concerned: “hmmmmmm” in our gaze because we followed “appropriate” cosmetology…
To be coached by someone to say: “I attempted suicide” rather than “I unsuccessfully tried committing suicide,” this is going to change the statistics more than actually acknowledging that the treatment in general makes it worse? In fact, it won’t will it? (note, that’s a rhetorical question)
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I almost can’t see how you could be more contradictory. You talk about not painting everyone with the same brush, and yet clearly state how insurances do that. Sharing statistics in general regarding “medications” is EXACTLY that, but one can’t say this without supposedly painting everyone with the same brush? The statistics shared in this article are what they are, and speak for themselves, fussing about terminology, or calling it outdated also doesn’t dismiss ANY of the statistics. Nor, does stating that in your practice, according to you, you see measurable benefit, and a reduction in suicidal behavior: one would have to talk to the patient themselves, and take the statistics from what they are, not as anecdotal evidence from someone making a living off of it. There are enough, for example, alcoholics that would say they need alcohol, or they can’t function, or any number of other substances (sugar, coffee, highly processed foods with all manner of what’s in them including food coloring, preservatives, MSG etc.), those selling such substances would make the same remarks you just have, might even fuss about the same cosmetic determinates to sound articulate, regarding terminology. You say you see “REDUCTION” in suicides, as if we can’t hear you, but it would be quite bleak would anyone say they help with suicides but this part of their treatment results in less reductions, although usually such treatment results in more. Still, this is what the article says is statistically the result. WHY do you have to state what the medications should be doing, when in general they do the opposite? What does this say about your ability to really deal with the emotional part of what’s going on when it gets critical. Why would anyone profit off of being given a chemical imbalance, while they are told it’s to treat a chemical imbalance, and the rest of the publicity stunts such as calling something which causes more suicides in general than not, has had to have a black warning label against the wishes of the drug companies, because it causes homicidal and suicidal behavior and ideation. The drugs were only approved after being given in trials with a sedative, along with getting people in the trials already on psychiatric drugs meaning they were used to having their brain chemistry, their neurotransmitters messed around with. Many of the trials had an incredible amount of people having to leave the control group because of side effects which wasn’t counted. Those in the non control group that got better after a week or two were taken out, also not counted. After the trial, those in the control group who had severe withdrawal symptoms (fever like symptoms, not being able to go to sleep, not being able to stay awake, seizures, etc.), this wasn’t reported at first. Plus, there were many many trials, and only those that in the end, after many tries came out as the companies wanted were used, all the others discarded. THAT is what you use as you state: “neither I nor anyone of us in our psychiatry group feel pressured to prescribe unless we determine itâs appropriate. While we concur careful selection & monitoring is important, we shouldnât paint entire classes of medications or patients with a single brush. ” Excuse me also, but calling something that causes more suicides than when not prescribed, what exactly does this have to do with painting ANYTHING with a single brush? and then: “When appropriate we see much measurable benefit and a REDUCTION in suicidal behavior and completed suicide” Do you have ANY notion of how such a statement is used as cherry picking, and anyone saying they have been helped given awards in order to keep the statistics very clearly stated in this article going, that despite antidepressants causing more suicides than not, they are still implimented, you even state how the drug companies get insurances to promote this. Clearly there are many quite desperate people looking for help, and then those who seem to feel relieved when they’ve been given a chemical imbalance, even though told they are being treated for one, and the chemical imbalance they didn’t have before treatment (WITH “antidepressants”) suppresses symptoms. AGAIN, you can say that you see a REDUCTION in suicides, but what’s the long term result, and WHAT is the “REDUCTION” you are talking about, if it’s in regard to what usually happens with “antidepressants” or in “therapy?” OUR TREATMENT HAS LESS SUICIDES THAN OTHER TREATMENTS doesn’t mean that no treatment has less, which is again here stated that that IS the case……..
WHERE are you coming from? “Is it our treatment here, when implimented in an “appropriate” manner causes less suicides then such treatment in general.” Or is it “this fragment here of what’s going on where the result is more of what is trying to be prevented, this little fragment here causes less suicides than no treatment?”
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Whether it’s whatever it is: “depression,” “confusion or disinhibition called psychosis,” ” not being able to concentrate or be brainwashed or indoctrinated,” etc. we are to believe there’s no reason for this? God forbid someone should find out WHY they are sad, what that feeling is really about, what it teaches us, what perspective if might have, if you don’t like something, then there’s something wrong with you, God forbid you would get out of the situation. God forbid the rose colored glasses are taken from between one’s senses and the world. God forbid one would see what the mob doesn’t want to, and criticizes anyone do they see what indoctrination says one shouldn’t. Or other forms of sadness. If you lost a loved one, does the sadness help you remember the things you can’t forget, that are still with you, and might still mean they simply have transformed into another dimension etc. That they are still there in a way beyond the physical…. This God awful nonsense that one is to discriminate against a feeling….. I even had a friend who committed suicide (sorry that’s how I describe it, doesn’t change it to say she killed herself, nor do I see how that is going to help a person in such a situation other than making those “in the profession” feel better they are fussing about something that makes it sound like they are sensitive, while not really possibly relating to begin with), she committed suicide, although as soon as I was told, I had contact with her from the other side, just about; regardless, a trance medium, nothing to do with me knowing or any communication between us, happened to see some sort of flyer or so about the poor girl, and then channeled a message from her that “happened” to end up in the hands of someone I had just met, who “happened” to put her hand on it out of nowhere, that it was laying there during a phone conversation, not knowing I knew this girl at all. Then read me this message. Part of the message was that killing herself didn’t help her depression [SIC]….. (is there a difference between trying to turn off this feeling made out to be a disease with “medications” and committing suicide to get rid of it!?) this is what happens in a society where you’re not supposed to feel, where feelings are made out to be enemies, where so much… (confusion, God forbid one should find out WHY they are confused, that there might be emotional stuff they’re not supposed to see, or WHY they would disinhibit themselves to see past limitations holding them back, say perhaps to understand feelings as multidimensional)…. One feels all the time, by the way. How you pick up a pencil, open a door, all of this expresses something about yourself, how you’re feeling what is going on on the inside, it’s not like it’s helpful to become a robot and think that has nothing to do with anything…… Being human isn’t some loss that we aren’t machines……….
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“The ones who boldly state that there must be something âwrongâ or âtoxicâ with the loved ones who are advocating for their mentally ill family member have obviously not experienced this personally and can not possibly understand the seriousness of this issue.” This is called I think a straw man argument. People here simply are STATING what correlates with recovery, and what doesn’t. PERIOD. That a family member is calling for what doesn’t correlate with recovery, doesn’t change such statistics, nor does it excuse the family member by saying they are being blamed as being “toxic” or whatever. It’s simply what has shown to most correlate with recovery, and here again see what hasn’t. PERIOD. full stop.
“I personally know someone whose husband was killed by her mentally ill son. If he had been on medication and connected to a supportive community, her husband would likely still be alive and her son would not be serving a life sentence in jail.” The real statistics that have been shown during and since the biological model of mental illness shows otherwise. There has only been a dramatic spike in such problems, and yet again, then there is the call for more of what correlates with the spike.
And it hardly seems the psychiatric medications that mess around with neurotransmitters the same as street drugs, that these are going to be a solution for whatever escape someone believes they are attaining. The seriously might be some deeper emotional issue going on that AGAIN the people who have experience with this, when not promoting the biological method, aren’t given the opportunity to help. In fact the whole understanding of emotional language, behavior and responses could be missing. It’s easy to call someone mentally unstable, but when there’s something going on that hasn’t been given the space to be understood, is there wasn’t “instability” what is preventing the reactions, the responses, the behavior from being understood might still be “stable” in getting in the way…….
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Just a few points:
1) When a system promoting the biological method of psychiatry, saying that chemical imbalances are being treated, while in reality causing chemical imbalance in order to disable health brain activity and suppress what they call symptoms, and then after the interim that symptoms are suppressed causing more symptoms, to call the lack of this “unmedicated” not only misuses the word medication, but also doesn’t point out that no doubt the person was “medicated” or forced on controlled substances to begin with, then given no help to get off of them, possibly just having the “medications” changed as if there was no withdrawal symptom, having ALL effects of this (side effects, withdrawal symptoms, need for more “medication” because either etc.) called a symptom or symptoms of a supposed biological disease that there is no real proof of WHILE the “treatment” HAS been proven to CAUSE biological disease, cause chemical imbalance, is in correlation and collusion with the current spike in the problem prevalent in this society…. that someone can be called unmedicated when they show signs of what the medication has done, and have this effect called a disease, this is then “unmedicated,” and to behave oneself is to ignore all of this, which somehow is supposed to be possible for those being “treated,” there seems to be something else going on…..
Who isn’t behaving themselves?
Then in answer to this: “SoâŚwhat in the world am I & hundreds of other family members to do? If they canât behave, donât want treatment, donât want to get better, unable to see they need help, you come up with a safer, better plan.”
This remark, I think I can assume, was in reference to the person being treated, not that the family member needed treatment, and wasn’t behaving themselves while demanding and implementing treatment that statistically correlates with more of the problem.
One might ask how much time was actually spent listening to anything but the fact that “they can’t behave” because the treatment they are forced on doesn’t correlate with recovery, which would then be called behaving if they behaved in a way as if the treatment not correlating with recovery does when it doesn’t, or “don’t want treatment,” again, they are not behaving when they don’t want treatment that doesn’t correlate statistically with recovery, or “donât want to get better” again, the same getting better is behaving oneself to want and take treatment that statistically hasn’t been shown to lessen the problem, nor scientifically can be proven to do what it is said to do (it causes chemical imbalance rather than treating one) and then: “unable to see they need help” again they are unable to see that what hasn’t helped them, what statistically doesn’t correlate with a lessening of the problem and what scientifically isn’t sound that this is the help they need……. And then: “you come up with a safer, better plan” this site is full of stories of people who have found healing, and recovery, but no: again they aren’t promoting what hasn’t. All of this despite the complete out of balance in investments would one look at what the cost is of what works compared with what doesn’t, or the amount of coercion (possibly violent) necessary, or the amount of alarmist behavior, or the amount of lies perpetrated, as in we know we are causing a chemical imbalance but way we are treating one etc…….
The one “non reality based” example actually depicts this: “the police are called due to either her calling them to make a complaint (no groundsâdead body in the garbage)” throwing out any reference to a method not mainstream that correlates with more recovery, but correlates with the spike in the problem along with the loss of life, this is like throwing out a dead body in the garbage. What works is discarded, denied, disqualified, thrown out with the garbage, and the loss of life because of this end up with the garbage…..
All the cherry picking of showing the minority of examples where it seems to work, or is made out to be what would, this doesn’t change the basic science nor statistics, nor does it excuse the consequent lives lost for these few “cherries.”…..
It also really becomes something when people who have shown to not be able to solve the problem become policing authorities in what will solve the problem……
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I quickly read through this, a lot of the language being standard for what might even call scientism. The whole political plethora of how the “disease” is labeled as being “biological,” not a word that this doesn’t hold water, or everything else that’s leaking. This for example: “Many felt manipulated or threatened into taking medication, fearing consequences if they refused.” replace “medications” with substances-not-proven-statistically-or-scientifically-to-correlate-with-recovery-only-short-term-suppression-of-symptoms-in-a-marginal-fashion-often-where-upon-statistically-there-is-more-relapsing-as-well-as-the-so-called-medications-causing-scientifically-proven-chemical-imbalance-while-said-to-be-treating-them and this opens up too much of the truth apparently.
But yeah, make such a report and it works within the system….. Don’t actually list the overriding causes….
At first, upon going over this report, I noticed there’s no mention of what happens before a person might end up in an asylum. The degree that logical, normal or natural responses to a situation that isn’t acknowledged are going on. How a person by that point has met with umpteen roadblocks, whether at home, at work, at church, at school, in the neighborhood, regarding what one reads in the news etc. And mostly only gets points for seeing this otherwise understandable response that might bring perspective as a disease one is to be phobic about and might have started to believe it, further losing one’s way…..
I remember that it was reported by the WHO that in “developing” countries where there wasn’t money for “medications,” despite that patients were treated possibly quite brutally, there was less relapsing. What does this say about making this “treatment” more “nice” while ignoring AGAIN what it seems to mostly ignore!?
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Annie, I do understand having been or being a teacher how your can’t say certain things, as little as a politician could even suggest that the pentagon spend even 1/4th of its budge[t] feeding those itâs set to bomb, despite protest from those believing in “the bombs bursting in the air.” This would suggest you considering what is more important. Then there’s this rather peculiar statement you make: “Suicide prevention training as a teacher does NOT prepare you for your own child telling you this. Iâve helped dozens of my students through tough times and suicidal thoughts. Listen to them. Talk to them. Hug them. Contact their parents. Check in on them.” Well…. It would be interesting to advertise a suicide prevention training, but have it state: “this method doesn’t work for your own children…” What does it in reality say about the training!? WHY wouldn’t it work for anyone’s children? Where does suicide prevention start then? Suicide prevention doesn’t involve teaching parents how to do this? Or should it say: âdonât try this at home!?â
SERIOUSLY!
Itâs also clear your son would have been around this process you say doesnât prepare you, and then the ax falls, so to speak, or not to speak but to type. Whatâs the difference when it hits home? And what does this say about following instructions, in contrast to the human condition, and how easily we are programmed to feel good when we follow set âinstructions.â
That bond that was there unspoken, as far as we know in your story above, until your son was in the process of being imprisoned where you yourself say he doesn’t belong, that bond hasn’t gone away. The challenge wouldn’t be there to open up the bond, otherwise. Even from the other side, there is stuff regarding my own parents that perhaps remained unspoken that I recently realized isn’t over with, have they both beautifully passed on. To sound completely crazy, I realized this listening to someone play violin, who I spoke with about HIS supposed suicide, before he reincarnated. Obviously he was in spirit. Then. He had been discovered and was forced to, or he would be exposed, and all the music he had written then, already, might have been compromised. Russia now again suppresses this information, when the world isn’t so…………..
Crazy as it might sound, I’m simply stating this, as being related to knowing that bond doesn’t go away. Itâs âspiritual,â itâs perhaps what life is about. And then there’s nothing said regarding why his father left, which says there’s something missing there. Why would anyone leave his own child, a new life, a blessing from, to use an overly interpreted word: “Heaven!?” Why would someone do that, what caused him to on the inside and the outside…..? Impossible things to try to understand, for a child…..
I recently have been working on cadenzas for Mozart concertos. Mozart as a child already thought that such virtuosity (aka “showing off” in a cadenza) expressed the impossible: miracles. One particular concerto, I had touched upon, when someone mentioned how Mozart tried to get some financial help from a certain noble family; simply reading someone bring this up on a blog, I began crying, and saw Mozart walking past what one can still see is a large body of water by this castle ( I had to look it up to see if it really was there), and experienced Mozart having the association of throwing himself into the water to drown. It’s not like none of us haven’t heard of such being a reaction, a response to life’s difficulties. There seriously was no plan to do such, a simple association. But I heard the beginning of this concerto, such. The concerto was written, before this, it seems. Where was this from, from Mozart being so irascible he left the place he was supposed to be another aristocratâs puppet, and then how does one get away from all of it!? Just an association, a momentary blip. And after the concerto being completed, so quickly that there was no rehearsal for the last movement, and Mozartâs father was there to hear it, after this there’s the role of the Contesse in the Marriage of Figaro, where her first aria is her expressing that SHE is suicidal. I had forgotten about this, and then someone recorded this concerto, and looking into the manuscript, practicing and studying it, I started writing a cadenza; when a run, I saw could do things that then might be considered inappropriate, but still fit within the expression. And the last movement gets really crazy to release the energy, in the cadenza I had quite a few variations of this theme, already, and then another was there, up in a cloud, and would have remained in a nebula, because I thought it was too much, but then I came upon an angel amongst us (later realizing who it was, who was considered the master of variation), who said just one word having to do with what was there for Mozart to give him the space for such that otherwise would be called “silly” what his father did, and then I did open the door for this variation, andâŚ.. it did drive me crazy, put me in a vulnerable state that might be called psychotic, or “schizo-effective,” but it worked. I learned to understand such a state better, the whole phenomenon. What really is non violent disinhibition….. It’s quite remarkable how paranoid and alarmist people respond, and get whole communities, and societies involved, in reality causing an extreme riff between THEM and their own humanity.
I would think it seems impossible for a child to understand why his father left him, but that bond to try to express this hasn’t gone away. All of the arts are there also. Perhaps, in writing down how he feels, your son could write a poem. Or just, in the beginning why he felt that way, I would think that thereâs more to such a note as simply trying to express how he feels with those bleak words. Unfortunately, that seems to also happen with suicide prevention, in general. You can read several stories here on this site, what suicide prevention lines really do, and how they often can make things worse. What does this say about a society that even given this response, this association with how one would respond, that thereâs lacking perspective as to WHY anyone would take such a road, instead itâs made out to be a disease.
No one is supposed to feel this way.
Nothing is wrong.
How could this happen, this is just impossible⌠rather than seeing someone is trying to express something, and giving that some legroom will allow them to see thereâs an outlet. Miracles do happen beyond what anyone has been brainwashed to believe is the limit,
When someone thinks life is impossible it there something wrong with pointing out that it isnât, or are they supposed to accept limitations their soul was already trying to reach beyond in order to grow?
Maybe Iâm âluckyâ early on when this all started, and stuff I knew that could be called psychic wasnât accepted by my parents, although all they had to do is ask the neighbor lady. Stuff I needed to talk about. Then I got diagnosed, but I ran into a real healer. Not a psychic, not a new age person, not a spiritualist, but a real healer, where it just happened. A Filipino man, times prism is also amazing, how such comes together, not the first time, stuff regarding other âtimesâ I had forgotten, actually, seeing the amazing poetry now, but after seeing him, and the impossible happen, as happen with the real Filipino healers, because it does, and forever exists, I realized 20 years had been added to my life, the amount of time thatâs statistically taken away from someone with my âconditionâ when âmedicationsâ are implimentedâŚâŚ
Instead I learned miracles exist, and thatâs the natural state of art, actually. Beyond being âentertainingâ and âdeadlinesâŚ..â
It’s possible. Have a talk with your son, or give him a piece of paper and writing utensil, now a days a computer also can work…….
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Would anyone read this article whether it’s making an excuse for doing “SOMETHING” regarding a situation that seems critical, one can hardly say that the word “abusive” is used incorrectly to describe even here, would one read how this “resort” is described. You can go on about the state of resources available, and this article bringing value and perspective, but this doesn’t change the statistics that in reality it’s exactly such resources in the state of the present mental health system that correlates and is in collusion with causing MORE suicides. More of the problem, more need to enforce what says it’s healing the problem while being in correlation and collusion (statistically and scientifically) with causing it. The more of the problem, and you can chastise anyone not being brainwashed to be “heroic” and ignore what’s really going on. Bringing up anecdotal information regarding an acquaintance and their loss doesn’t change such data either. It might even really only show bias, as in this system given perspective causes more of the problem, but I know someone who lost their child, and it might have helped. So goes getting points for advocating mainstream approach what’s “available,” what’s considered a “resource,” what’s a promoted “route,” what’s considered to be of “value,” and deny the results in the end, but get rewards from who is giving them for taking their “route,” with “value, available resources.” And then use the word perspective to again in reality deny perspective. Perspective doesn’t involve actual perspective, you have to separate result and method and add the method that doesn’t get results or exposing what that really does is lack of it [perspective]. Same as the rest: say there are resources available, when in reality the resources that don’t correlate with more of the problem are not really promoted, and then bring up anecdotal grievances again. No one here is promoting anyone losing a loved one, or suicide, nor are they negating your lose, we are sharing statistics. It’s also quite mean-spirited, to use such a loss to deny statistical and medical reality, to let alone the words snarky and tacky from use. Denying that an abusive situation that in reality correlates with causing more of the problem is supposed to be excused by what!? I understand you know how to use the words “perspective,” “resources,” “route,” “meanspirited,” “tacky,” “snarky” the same as coloring an article as something normal one does peppering it with descriptions as if it’s a travelogue along with descriptions of some of the undesirable inhabitants working there, an article where in the end the author says she knows he doesn’t belong……..
I HAVE TO DO THIS BUT I KNOW HE DOESN’T BELONG THERE!
And then somehow, the mother of the author responding with: âI know how hard this is for you. I went through it with Ashley. It just sucks.â ” to me points out again anecdotal input, as if this is just how it goes, regardless of perspective with statistical cause and effect. Or whether other methods are being promoted. Who is Ashley, also, what’s her story?
Note: I’m not really writing this as a response, it’s more for the other people reading this who have had it, and when simply responding with what’s left in them to respond, they get labeled as such, because they aren’t ameliorating or apologizing for what they have EXPERIENCED as being highly traumatizing. And it’s them actually that are given no chance to process or share their heaviest chapters. As in: “Don’t actually point out extreme contradictions, because then if your heaviest chapters involve trauma from such lies as: “the place that will help you makes things worse statistically, so we need to treat you more rather than see what we’re doing, while the savior is profiting from this?'” don’t actually point this out or you’re snarky, meanspirited, lacking perspective and value, and……….. oh yeah, DO bring up “unconditional love,” when such abusive contradictions are ignored….
(!?) I hate to point this out, but when someone had lost their father when he was four, since then felt: “Then he opened up about his dad leaving him when he was four years old. He felt untrusting and unworthy. He felt like he didnât matter. He felt sad all the time. He felt like he wanted to die.” and never had the outlet to talk with his mother about this, this story told is advertised as what!? “This essay is a sincere reminder of how important it is to be an active listener and open communicator, offering a place of refuge and a voice expressing unconditional love and support. Timelier than ever.” Somehow, I think some opening for communication was missing, and as time goes…… what it too late when it finally came out!?
Note number 2: Again I’m not really writing this as a response, it’s more for the other people who have been accused such, when they simply respond themselves with what they have left, as if after everything they have been through they can’t express their trauma, but have to act like “politicians” or advertising agents with euphemisms and platitudes enough to go with such superficiality, image and “heroic morals.”
It really easy to turn words around like that, because such and such is supposed to be seen that way….. But what is one describing? I wouldn’t even necessarily want to call that magic……
Might be more like partisan business practices or politics…. and then “faithfulness.” or “religion” of such…..
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Sorry, in my rather long post, what I basically was trying to say is that if society was truly interested in understanding trauma, and how it effects people, they would see the signs to stop so much that comes because of trauma. All of the crimes, the sociopaths, the wasting of nature, all of that, and with “mental illness” it’s just this zone where you either acknowledge it or not. Deny how trauma effects people, and a society doesn’t see how it would stop everything else, only tries to treat it with more trauma. And “mentally ill” people aren’t the ones causing all the wars, we’re not the criminals, we’re not the sociopaths running the banks and the militaries, the penal systems and even the churches and schools, no. We’re just these people that can’t fit into all of that and…… we might be trying to point something out to society that if they paid attention, just simply to understand trauma and how it affects people rather than thinking it’s a necessary form of “discipline”……
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Dear Ekaterina, there are so many sad sad stories. And it’s society’s great loss not to listen. It would change all of society would society care about trauma, and how one transcends it. All the symptoms labeled as disease to me are something akin to telling someone when they have a limp that there is something genetically wrong with their leg, to prevent actually seeing that maybe they are overworked or so. And then the loss is the human condition, and all the creative, amazingly natural evolutionary responses to finding another way than forcing people to work till they have a limp. And it’s a loss to the people who manipulate the whole system to label a natural response thus, THEY have lost their humanity, and they won’t find it in whatever they think they’ve gained….. Eventually they will find themselves, but in the meantime it’s our task not to invest in using trauma as a means to punish people to control their behavior so that the system can control them.
I think you’ve encountered it yourself that as soon as you have been labeled as being mentally ill, you can’t do an array things that for others are normal without people suddenly being concerned, all because at one point you weren’t frightened into being controlled by statistical based norms, peer pressure, consensual reality deportment, the status quo , the fashion of whatever group everyone inside it has compromised themselves to… etc. etc. And so you are targeted that you might actually break free. Are showing signs of dissent, and the even worse fear that your dissent might be subconsciously expressed through sadness, your own inner world depicting the trauma that you might gain perspective and transcend it etc. that’s even worse because it might change your conscious thinking and you’ll be less programmable, less vulnerable to their brainwashing. You might actually gain access to a world that exists for you despite you’re not controlled by obeying said rules or you’ll be traumatized into it, and that world really…..it might show they’re not really, not really in such an amazing society as they think. They very stuff the oppress and are so paranoid about might actually not be what they think. And then comes all of the alarmist behavior, that their oppression is for your own good, and them they feel safe when they don’t look at what they are so alarmed about to see it’s really nothing, or might actually be a completely different understanding leading to perspective on what it is to be human rather than something programmed to follow said…..
It remains amazing to me how human being because they have cognitive faculties that you can tell them something that at a mental level has all the elements that it’s valid and true, but it’s only a facade. It’s only there to be repeated as excuse as to why said process is true and is working, and so no one looks anymore at the real result, or cherry picks, as it’s called, no insult to cherries, I just had something, they are amazing. But God forbid anyone will dissent from said indoctrination, or worse do something that deviates it from a way that when left alone might expose that perhaps it’s not what people have been brainwashed to believe it is despite all their efforts to enforce without looking at the result…… A Course in Miracles says that when someone is talking from their ego to not respond and argue with them, because then you are coming from your own….. Perhaps just peacefully doing your own thing shows there’s another way……
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Dear Ekaterina, you don’t have to have been in an asylum to have a whole……. a whole population of people you miss. You just have to have been there and talk to, get to know, listen to, and have taken people into your lives that are so human they don’t fit into the machinery using them for a “society.” And yes, they so many get labeled as being mentally ill.
Just one person here: https://www.lifestorynet.com/obituaries/lisbeth-lilly-lipke.29513#memories She was a friend for years. I watched her get committed at the end, after we had had a conversation before this, where she very quietly explained her prior suicide attempts, and how depressed she would get after having been in the asylum. I don’t even know what kind of adjective or adverb to give the process of her being committed. Everyone lied, no one even followed real rules. She simply was acting out a bit, but I could get along with her. She had gone out with some “friends” the morning before, but ended up being with me on her front yard, where she was making up poetry, my long hair being similar, akin or as the vines growing on her side fence. Since I have one side of my backyard covered with grape vines, maybe that’s her. She was being playful, and had some M and M’s ( a candy ) that she had put into a container (a wine glass), calling them Jesus blood (or his body, I don’t remember, probably his body). Which is interesting to me because I had had a funny dream years ago where I traded with my [Dutch] cousins some M and M’s without peanuts for those with peanuts, like I was conning them into it because with peanuts seemed more illustrious or high class, but that all the M and M’s in the dream (which they CAN do in a dream) hatched into chickens I would have more. Years before this, I had been wanting to go to the beach, and thought about calling Lilly up, which was only thought, or actually more than the limitations that are supposed to exist and WAS thought. Lilly then called me up bringing up that we would go to the beach, although the limitations imposed on us would say that I would have had to physically bring this up. But no, they were my own thoughts, not something anybody else programmed me with that then could have come out of my mouth like a computer being used for whatever, no! they were my own thoughts, and she responded to them. Sadly, she responded rather tragically, because having been tortured and tortured, and intimidated, and abused, and insulted, and discriminated against in the mental health system this wouldn’t fit into their idea of normalcy, of statistical based norms of consensual reality deportment necessary for them to leave her alone as “sane.” Just because she was in reality where thought is real, despite itâs supposed to be something else, so limited it couldnât exist. She âreadâ my mind, one would say, but that seems a bit bleak, as if itâs some test. I did ask Lilly, after her “suicide” what it was like in Heaven, and she said the good stuff remains, it’s not flushed down the whatever, but grows. That’s more real, I would believe, then anything we think is loss, be it physical or whatever. There had been a local medium that had seen a flyer regarding Lilly after her suicide, and the medium had written some message from Lilly on a piece of paper, this was given to another lady who I happened to be talking to on the phone (she was involved with being pastor to a church that actually kicked her out for not following their rigid rules), and this lady “happened” to put her hand on this piece of paper while talking, and read it to me. It basically said that no, committing suicide didn’t end Lilly’s depression, that it was what was described as a “deadset” state. I think that means that you fail to see everything in life that is there beyond what is making you feel it isn’t there. But it was later, when I asked her her what Heaven was like, and she told me that the good things remain and grow, that they aren’t loss. Because I was involved with someone who had a famous near death experience, so I decided to ask Lilly. It all was so much of a shock to me, when she had committed suicide, also given how I watched it happen, which I haven’t shared yet other than everyone lied, I notice. All she really did was not be intimidated by these “friends” who then wouldn’t leave us alone to simply be together, first invited me over with her for tea and some cake, not because they wanted to interact with us, they wanted to confront her, to coerce her into treatment. So, after lying to us, and we had gone across the street, I was asked to let them be with Lilly, and I said: “No, that’s funny, I’m not going to do that,” and left. Because I wasn’t going to condone their idea that she needed whatever they were trying to push on her. Didn’t take long and she came bounding across the street, scared out of her wits, because they had threatened her, she KNEW what happens in those places, she tried to get away on my bike which was locked and slammed down on a pedal that wouldn’t move so hard she broke her Achilles tendon. She then took flight, and a sort of chase scene ensued. The couldn’t find her, she had found another friend to help her for awhile, they broke into her house called her case manager, after it was made clear Lilly didn’t want them in her house. I had called there telling them to get out of Lilly’s house or I’d called the police, from a lady who since has continued to be extremely nasty, I got a sarcastic reply of: “Oh.. would you,” where upon I knew they’d lay a whole schpiel on the police. And indeed, afterwards, after NOT calling the police, I passed by her house while the police were there, and her “friends” and they were in the process of committing her. As I came by she pointed me out to the police, and said I was really nice, then all I did was stop, and maybe didn’t even say anything, and a policeman told me to move on or I’d be arrested. I asked him for what I would be arrested, and he said for interfering with an investigation. I went home, and called police non emergency, told them how these “friends” had trespassed into her house, and the non emergency police actually told me stuff she supposedly had done that she hadn’t, as if that was reason to have her committed. I found this just about always happens, as well, things are exaggerated, and if that’s enough stuff is brought out that whoever thinks might have happened as if it did. When it hadn’t, wouldn’t, isn’t……. They said she had been taking her clothes off, which is the FIRST thing a “friend” said she was doing, when she had fled them, which she hadn’t done at all. Then they told the police something she hadnât done, and then the police are reporting this from the non emergency number as if they are reading the tabloids. By now, in the intercourse or trying to remember and put into words on a screen everything, I end up being quite overloaded. I should ADD that after breaking her achilles tendon, the asylum never attended to a true physical condition. Her leg was swollen up to the knee, the tendon would have had to have been directly attended to, before it was too late, but no, all they did in a âmedical establishmentâ was dope her up with disabling agents. He foot was ruined, she got out by, as she said, being able to make them think she was OK (I think one doesnât want them to know if you arenât, they only make things worse), and then she ended up being committed again, this time there were reactions to the drugs she was one that werenât acknowledged, by then she had been raped, and instead a nun that was always there in that particular hospital as a representative of such a system accused her of being âtoo provocativeâ as well as denying the affect the drugs were having on her when because of them she couldnât hold her urine. Then she got, and within a few months had committed suicide. I had warned all of her friends, and her mother, that I thought if they had her committed again they would lose her, and then despite my warning to most of her âfriendsâ I remained the bad guy.
In the chase scene going on, where I was trying to find her when she had fled, I happened to slow down at one point, because I felt the need, I then ran into another friend out of nowhere, someone who since then I ALSO have lost thanks to you know what system, and while standing there talking to her, Djokovic happened to come by in a truck [I think] and being sensitive enough to have some notion of what was going on, and seeing me, pulled an expression on his face that I have only seen in two others, and called âTHAT DISTURBED LOOK.â At first it was just a joke, the mental health system sure makes people look disturbed, but this regards just something someone might see who is sensitive. Who did I see have âthat disturbed look?â Two others, who I think were responsible for creating Schumannâs Kreisleriana (One being Schumann the other Hoffman who wrote the story Kater Murr that the character Kreisler came from). And then Djokovic had the same lookâŚ.. So again, itâs not really funny, although one can only try to engage with it using humour, everything has become so⌅ later, a week, maybe less, possibly more, he came by again in the same truck, and I stated, crying out, : âTheyâre trying to put Lilly in the asylum again,â and he says: âIâm in loveâŚâŚ..â Since then, I also donât know whether I have run into Lilly, after being pronounced dead, as an angel among us, albeit the whole scenario being akin to a dream state where things are symbolic or at least beyond the trapping of how things are labeled as being considered âobjectiveâ enough that such can happen,whether itâs just me seeing something more in what happened and itâs just an association (Iâm told to make a quip about this being a âsymptomâ I suppose of âpsychosisâ), or she actually did materialize from the wave patterns of a dream in spirit, and thus could materialize into the physical from the wave patterns of physical matter, as one sees in the double slit experiment when the wave patterns are observed, with quantum physics, the uncertainty principle allowing for this. If we can dream and step into their world, perhaps they can dream and appear in ours. All of this BEYOND what most academic settings would say is possible, although someone like Tesla might completely disagree, and have example and technology that does say it is.
Ekaterina, it gets crazier, I had for quite awhile thought Lilly was Piccini, the composer. Opera. And I wonât say exactly which opera singer I ran into at church, because she was with a violin player I also wonât mention. I wonât mention it because they are famous enough one doesnât, and it was their personal life. But this singer then is actually bringing to life characters, like the one Piccini [another branch of Lillyâs soul, possibly] put on paper to be brought to lifeâŚâŚâŚ And I ended up talking to this singer, having heard her singing just the night before online on youtube, and never had heard anything like this. I think she was in the hotel here, and we walked together that direction (towards the hotel) after standing outside the church with another person (that it seems Lilly knew), and she went to I think to the hotel, while I went to the museum. During this walk I acted out stuff also. This AGAIN is too much to get into, involving Antonio Stradivari and his son âGiovanni,â Giovanni being a character in another opera, and âGiovanniâ perhaps having reincarnated to be Maxwell Clark who also found out stuff that Tesla, and the dream state would understand beyond mainstream indoctrination (academics). Giovanni actually around again, a new part of his soul, possibly, and I had made a story up about him being Stradivariâs son. Having hauled all of this out. Then. One day, a girl appeared out of nowhere as I was going into the library, stating she was the girl at church. I had a whole conversation with her. But, if I am ârationalâ about this, this is impossible, because they are different heights. And every time I consider it, the one is the height of Lilly, completely the same everything, just about, and the other is the height of the singer, which is about a foot or so less. Was Lilly transcending time and weaving a line in dreamtime that transcends loss, bringing in what a character thatâs called fictional can be? SERIOUSLY! I have two memories, this singer, who is then fitting her height, talking with her a little, walking towards the museum with her, she, I think going to the hotel (and not wanting to go to the museum), and me going to the museum, after playing a jive with Giovanni that I wonât go into. And then thereâs this girl appearing out of nowhere, completely looking like Lilly, having a whole conversation with her as âthe girl at the church,â and then her apologizing that she didnât go to the museum with me. This happens all the time in opera, by the way, a change of character to make the plot gel.
I could go on about it, people still in âthe communityâ that would say they care about Lilly, but you canât mention any of this really, or they might say, for example, as one said: âyou wrote me off,â as if Iâm was supposed to keep some investment in what wouldnât, wasnât, and isnât helping, and thus, they feel they are doing their duty because all of what happened to show me about the Universe, and that I need to grow, they can dismiss, and get a âbadgeâ for itâŚ..
And now, having written all of above, I actually skipped something, something that would make me out to be completely crazy.
This friend of mine, the one that would have been Hoffman, of the disturbed look, and Kreisleriana, she had called me that Lilly had committed suicide. I responded with: âsheâs not dead, sheâs just out of the mental health system,â and then when the phone wasnât in my ear anymore, having put it down (I didnât even have a cell phone at that time yet), I took what I would call a magic wand I had made, waved it in the air, and then Lilly appeared in a holographic image. She asked me how I had done that, and I simply demurred with a dimple doing the speaking beyond words and that was that. She was happy, though. There is even a healer who would heal using a holographic image, a healer called the dream healer. Adam McCleod. I of course was playing around with Harry Potter âfiction.â I donât then actually completely agree with Rowling though, what she calls a horcrux is a connection between people where healing can take place, itâs called forgiveness. Whatâs missing in the one the other might be able to give, and where it comes from, whatâs given, there no loss to give from, no debt, no guilt, just what was there the whole time waiting beyond the worldâs way of âfixingâ things can emergeâŚâŚ
Actually Ekaterina, now I remember, it wasnât the same person, and no, there wasnât my friend that popped out of Heaven, so exactly. There were two visits to that church, two weeks in succession, and the first week was the opera singer, but then the next week was a different girl, only she was with the same guy I had stood outside the church and talked with the singer. I had somehow convoluted those two, and put my friend, who Iâd lost, up to popping in from Heaven, involving her âpriorâ incarnation and standard opera devices of people going in disguise as each other. Since according to me she had written such, it seems. Such goes the mind thanks to you know what, and loss. Thereâs no loss though, in the end. It did take me quite a part of the day, which I before had actually figured out, but the story that came out of it, half fiction, just was too strong to dismiss. I think art actually is the strongest spiritual energy, beyond fundamental religion. So no, my friend didnât pop in out of Heaven, unless it was via two other people, the one looking too much like her to dismiss as not being some sort of doppelganger, but a good one bringing the threads of a story together, so I donât miss what would otherwise have been lost.
Thatâs just one person, actually, that I missâŚ..
Another girl. Cheryl, when I was going to a Junior College, and she was in the choir with me, she used to call me up. She would tell me how her sister was in the French resistance, and was scared for her. I just listened. I donât even remember whether I ever said this might be from a past lifetime, and then thereâs the emotional side of it, what was she resisting ( the sister), if that what was going on. But yeah, sheâd call me, and Iâd just listen. She was OK, she took care of herself, basically, but then some âsocial workersâ came along to check her out. For whatever reason her refrigerator wasnât full, although she was taking care of herself, eating regularly, it just was her refrigerator was empty. There are enough people that perhaps are homeless, have no refrigerator, I donât know what Cherylâs financial situation was, whether she went to the local soup kitchen, instead, whether she was trying to lose weight, butâŚâŚâŚ Yes, as you already guessed, they committed her, I saw her once years, years ago on the bus, she looked all puffed up from the psychiatric drugs, her movements were like she was trying to get out of a big ball imploding around her preventing her from moving, something by then she was used to, since thatâs the way it goes, Iâm sure, her eyes also quite popping out of her head from it. She still had given up though, there was still a glint of being naughty or mischievousness or curiosity beyond the norm that she wasnât going to dismiss in her eyes. I heard about the social workers from a friend of mine, who somehow had heard this, and there were many such stories, sadly this friend of mine sometimes going on the side of the mental health system, when it wasnât helping her or the others.
Another lady, who thankfully escaped the system, despite the social workers, but was extremely abused. She came from Ukraine, this being years ago (a couple of decades) had been promised a job, papers should have been taken care of, none of that happened, and she was left having to deal with this and two children. As would be with many parents taking care of their children rather than whether their house fits a magazine layout of being well-kept, it was messy. Some social workers get involved, and suggest antidepressants, and this lady, having had a mother that was a nurse and new these drugs can have such an undesirable affect, she said no, and told the about what she knew. These social workers took away her children, exaggerated everything, I heard it was in the papers how messy her house was, hearing this from someone that REALLY should have known better to believe it. I talked with this woman numerous times on the bus, and everything was fine. She never showed any signs of being anything but a good mother. Eventually she found a man here she married, and then went back to Ukraine, although given recent trends had to leave there. I heard this from her husband, but havenât seen him since, although he was on the bus often. Iâve encountered enough from these social workers to know how that all goes, which is too much to mention here. Excuse me let me write an encyclopedia about it, that might hold a fraction of whatâs going on⌅
There was a guy that helped at a mission where they had a group for people to come together and share stuff they wrote. A writerâs circle. He, in high school, was the class president, and when he was to give a speech at graduation, he told them the truth regarding formal education. They then turned off the microphone WHILE he was talking. Apparently it was THAT dangerous for them would anyone start to question the veritable truth of what was brought forth in their noble institution. He became a really good writer, wrote for the local paper, had a book he was going to write, had a literary agent as well, and was working on that, but that fell through. He told me he was having problems with alcohol, and this editor had suggested something he didnât like and he responded quite bluntly, perhaps with a swear word. Again, given anyone trying to dress up for commercial use and mainstream whatever he already had experienced, I canât but see he was right, but they dropped him. I donât know if I would know how to react or respond when an editor for a mainstream outlet would suggest something that to me to go along with so many of what I discover is offered at say Barnes and Noble as modern literature, and how paint by number it so often is. In the meantime, he had had a suicide attempt, actually told us he was really mad when he woke up and wasnât dead. Iâm sure this also was after having been committed, and experiencing the oppression there. Then I heard he also had committed suicide. Someone ran into him in the kind of state she called âpsychoticâ because she couldnât relate to him, and then it was reported he had committed suicide.
I could go on about others, those stuck in the system, not being able to free themselves, or even being able to bypass the barb wired fence of fear keeping them imprisoned every time they try to engage with what would help them beyond what they are allowed to entertain. How is anyone to acquire the matrix of understanding to work with answers one isnât allowed to even entertain?
Some do get out, like your friend Sam seems to haveâŚâŚâŚ.
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This is indeed hair raising, especially for those who have been through such. And THANK GOD that when one does a search for something like âputting someone in an asylum increases the chance of suicideâ you get the following hit: https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/06/involuntary-hospitalization-increases-risk-suicide-study-finds/ which was the second time I did such a search after reading this blog, the first on a tablet where writing a response is difficult, the first time with a similar statement the hit came in the first five I think, the second was further down the page with number 8.
With the stringent effort put into portrayal of concern and then horror, is one allowed to be objective, or is this seen as cruel to point out that look here, according to statistics shared here you could be making the matter worse. Or is this then again labeled as being insensitive, in blocking something being done, in not showing concern etc?
I think I have the same reactions as MANY of the people attending this site that my heart race increases, I myself start feeling anxious, I wonder whether I can say anything given the experience Iâve had with the mental health system, given the data I know, given the people Iâve talked to, and given the way most people respond when you share any of this.
Yes, this article is peppered with many descriptive notes, what the asylum looked like, the couches, the people there, the nurses responses, the grandmother going to get food while waiting for intake, the horror of experiencing whatâs going on, the contradictions etc. etc. all very well fulfilling how one writes a blog creating a scenario, most English teachers won’t say that it lacks that, but in the midst of it all we read: âThen he opened up about his dad leaving him when he was four years old. He felt untrusting and unworthy. He felt like he didnât matter. He felt sad all the time. He felt like he wanted to die. He didnât have a plan. Yet.â Which only happens after the child has been made ward of the asylum. After the child has begged not to be put there, promising not to hurt himself.
Suicidal thoughts are suicidal thoughts, and like any other feelings, you try to push them away, this misses why they are there, and at that point they are just feelings. Feelings expressed however they can at that moment. Feelings have an intelligence that the conscious mind with all of its attempt at finding the answers might never reach. Dowsing them with disabling drugs what is this going to do, and what does it do to those people who would have been able to give legroom to such feelings so natural intelligence emerges and they become feelings one was trying to express: simply because anyone could have them, given a situation, and then being allowed perhaps answers can emerge? Somehow âI feel suicidal and thatâs a dangerous disease so turn it off for Godâs sake, and thatâs going to take care of the feeling,â this just isnât working for me, as if simply given room for WHY this feeling is there is dangerous. And how is any solution to be found if the very reason one looks for a solution is made out to be a disease!?
I was going to go to the farmerâs market before I read this, one of the one places somehow I can feel at home, given the paranoia that can build up against anyone showing signs of what could be labeled as a psychiatric condition. People start acting like attack dogs but you can’t say it might have something to do with brainwashing. Something must be done, and looking at the true results is pushed to the side. Imagine knowing something is going on with you, and you want to find an answer, but you know or have experienced that most people have been brainwashed to believe that doing what has made the situation worse is what needs to be done. All that along with wanting to find an answer, when in reality you know thereâs this result of: âso and so just wonât do what heâs supposed to,â or âwonât behave the way he should. âAnd then when one gets anxious or infuriated which would be the normal response, this is again made out to beâŚâŚâŚ is this a further attempt at mind control? Overloading someone!?
Have I again not said or done what needs to be?
Do I again take on the visage of a reporter that reports or witnesses or describes something thatâs going to be censored, you know these reporters, the ones reporting stuff going on on the wrong side of some moral war⌅!?
Am I being disruptive, is there something wrong with me: this feeling of anxiety doesn’t just go flying away, given what I’ve seen, heard, read and experienced given what such a situation does in an asylum?
Will it all go away would I take a pill or be compliant with my belief system!??
I find that I go and meditate, rather than thinking I’m supposed to “do” something…..
After meditating for maybe 5 minutes, if even that, in the nick of time to add this before the edit option times out, I remember that when I was around 18 or 19, probably 18 and working really hard practicing piano and fitting into a college setting while staying at home, that when my parents left to go out, trying to make sense out of how I felt (it might have just been a bit of uneasiness I didn’t understand), I told them that I was scared I would commit suicide if they left me alone. They both have beautifully passed on (I’m 65 now), were both psychologists, my father teaching at a University, and I think my mother simply said that people my age often feel like that, and indeed I never had that feeling come back. I could go on about what was missing perhaps in expressing feelings, trying to work that out, the whole psychological scenario, but really it just went away. Thinking what my life would have been had they……………. I don’t even want to think about it, perhaps I might do it anyway, and my imagination regarding what would have happened MIGHT be more accurate than what anyone mostly can read in mainstream media as being the result…………
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Absolutely no need to apologize. I had never even looked into Von Franz at all, only heard conversations by my parents, my father particularly, and the way he would go on about how her use of symbolism was so amazing (I remember some remark about Unicorns). How she uses this and then that, and brings this in, all explaining collective consciousness or the subconscious. As if this is where perspective in the inner mind comes from. Unicorns are part of stories, mythology, if not more than that, but to give them some concrete meaningâŚ.. Von Franz here goes on about all sorts of stuff here, that rather makes me laugh, as response. She goes on about someoneâs sexual fantasies, as if itâs any of her business to judge, and then decides whether he should still be living with his mother, making me wonder what kind of formula anyone would have to fit their life into before she dissects itâŚ.. I guess people get something out of being handed out high brow analysesâŚ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7kUpMOzEoA&t=234s Goes on about the four types of women Jung used, and whatâs wrong with the mother Mary image. Well, there you go, someone who has had a rather pious mother using an image of being so good to make another feel as if they have to also become such an ikon or thereâs something wrong with them, bring them to Von Franz, have her bring up mother Mary and the other three female potentials, and itâs all solved (Iâm being sarcastic). There we have Hollywood and image games, what this is supposed to have to do with the actual Mother Mary is beyond me, already. She goes on to such a degree with analyses, and meanings to things, I simply donât know what sheâs going on about after a while. Who knows what sheâs going on about. She goes on and on about Jesus, and then acts as if she knows what his struggle was. Mentions being torn, as if that was his purpose, if thatâs what sheâs saying at all. There is a book called A Course in miracles: interesting history: A woman started hearing a voice, a woman that was a militant atheist, highly competitive medical psychologist, but was having difficulty with a colleague, and then he I think had said: âthereâs got to be a better way,â and she (this psychologist) started hearing what she calls a voice, for lack of knowing how to describe it. And the voice started dictating this book, because otherwise she was annoyed by it. Theyâd lock each other up in a basement close the curtains and go over what had been dictated. All that so no one would see she had signs of going crazy. This psychologist. The book then identified its voice as being Jesus, and it was published by someone who had been told she would do such. âJesusâ himself says this there: âI elected, for your sake and mine, to demonstrate that the most outrageous assault, as judged by the ego, does not matter. 2 As the world judges these things, but not as God knows them, I was betrayed, abandoned, beaten, torn, and finally killed. 3 It was clear that this was only because of the projection of others onto me, since I had not harmed anyone and had healed many.â To read A Course in Miracles, it basically says you crucify yourself, rather than other are doing that. Itâs quite hard logic, I worked on that book for years and years, itâs not like I completely agree with Jesus at all, and thereâs the aspect that he himself was traumatized, and so such an escape was an escape rather than what itâs made out to be, even the people calling themselves Christians are denying they donât really except him, because look heâs this symbol, a badge you can use. He did this, he was resurrected, heâs the authority. As if heâs the only angel among us that ever appeared after death without all the drama. You can get out of a situation, and forgive that way also, that might be in ways more challenging, and in ways easier, both at the same time, but thatâs not what happened. I have memories from that time, seeing him on the donkey he entered Jerusalem on, and I thought: âoh GOD! Heâs not going to survive this.â He could have escaped the territory, in the end Lazarus had to, they were going to kill him as well, even says that in âthe bible.â But then thereâs the trauma regarding his family also, how he was supposed to be this great prophet, and other parts of him had been suppressed. In the Urantia Papers, it says that he wasnât allowed to draw in school anymore, as a child already, it had been reported and he was accused of idolatry, somehowe everything one drew had to be âGod,â so they could determine what it was, as if it wasnât everything or anything. His father had been accused of being a bad father, and then forbid his son to draw or even make little clay sculptures. They were in a Greek village and Jesus loved their playhouse, but then forget himself and told his father he wanted such in their village, and his father had a fit saying he didnât want to hear anything ever again about this Greek stuff. Nice father huh? Jesus also played harp, and sang, probably quite limited in what words he could use, but he did, and people would come around just to hear him sing. After his father had died, he was the eldest, had a little sister name Ruth who had friends that would play while in the courtyard, one would pull Jesus off the workbench and DEMAND a story. There it goes right? None of that is good enough, he has to be a great âprophet.â Canât just live life and see God in artâŚ.. Iâm quite on a tangent here, but itâs quite amazing that people go on about mental health and depression, and how it can lead to suicide, but here someone CHOSE their own end, and itâs heralded, whole Institutions that are tax exempt have come from it⌅And I read that there are more church buildings than hospitals worldwideâŚ.. And then thereâs the other side, what if Jesus actually was uprooted, that it wasnât just about this metaphysical display, that it actually hurt so much how he was treated, even his followers werenât allowed anything but to buy stuff, werenât allowed in the temple anymore, werenât allowed get-togethers, he was followed wherever he went, they constantly were trying to trap himâŚâŚ.Many people heralding how âChristianâ they are would do the same to Jesus now again. In fact a healer that helped me, as a child he was put in an asylum and given shock therapy because a Catholic Priest had said that when miracles happened around him, he had been given a special gift by the devil, and the devil wouldnât like the shock therapy and loosen his grip on the man. His story is here: https://youtu.be/g9edB02jWP0?si=q8EJlFI8J8eA-7sd&t=726
And Iâm getting distracted. I have a very long relationship with Jesus, and that spans at least 5000 years, and he by all means was not throughout history always the angel heâs made out to be, but thatâs how one learns. You make mistakes. Youâre programmed to act a certain way, something you thought wasnât important you throw away or worse, and voila, itâs not there anymore. But as soon as you learn to value it, see what you âlostâ there it is. There you have Platoâs cave allegory, whatâs from forever, couldnât be lost. Iâm supposed to be âschizo-effectiveâ but thus, sometime between July 27 (when we had my fatherâs funeral https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmpJ2EDfh7s ) and September 27, while I was in âan episode,â along with quite a few other things, I stepped right into the other dimension, and there actually was Jesus, and we had a little interaction, which Iâm now, from this âdistractionâ getting back into, thereâs stuff we were both working on regarding what I canât get into here, and he could move on, as well. What the difference is, would be, isnât, doesnât metter between âschizophreniaâ where thereâs no difference between inner and outer awareness, when in reality inner is more real than outer, to begin withâŚâŚ.and then entering a dimension that touches upon foreverâŚâŚ.
The Urantia papers clears quite a lot up. As does a Course in Miracles. No, Jesus never said he came to bring a sword. He also never walked on water, that was Peter dreaming he saw this, and while yet dreaming stepped out of a boat into the water and had to be rescued. There were miracles abundant, though. He was conduit for a boy with emotional problems to be healed, the boy would be fine, and then go to the caves and howl for awhile, then come to himself again. Jesus was conduit to heal him, but at the same time there was a dog that barked, and consequently some sheep jumped over a cliff, and the sheep herders instead acknowledging the miracle blamed this on Jesus, and didnât want him around, as if he had anything to do with what could have happened if he was there or not.
ANYHOW!
Sheâs perfectly correct, in the other video that wars uproot people, and this is tragic, traumatizing, turns their life upside down, robs them of any feeling of safety, which only more makes me wonder why she goes on about âcommunityâ as being the source of comfort, when someone who would go to a psychologist, say for help with whatâs called a mental health problem, they would have probably experienced EXACTLY how the âcommunityâ might be the problem. Probably in the community, and probably at home, BOTH. They probably were uprooted by the community already, and the family, didnât feel at home, had no place to go. And thenâŚ. Itâs exactly to me, how a community doesnât have room for such people that typifies the environment ignoring trauma, and then also using it as if this is discipline, itâs THAT environment that breeds the sociopaths that end up stirring up wars, waging them, profiting off of them. Itâs the community that puts out such âdisciplineâ is necessary, and finds a need to train people to suppress their compassion and empathy for others, in order to implement such âDiscipline.â Iâve read Against Therapy
by Mousaieffe and it explains so much regarding what Von Franz is going on about. What does it say about someone who when confronted by women who had been sexually abused, or suppressed by the patriarchical society, what does it say that in order to hide this trauma and stay politically correct, he starts making up something as obscene and ridiculous as âpenis envyâ for women. I have to laugh and itâs not even funny. Jung then thought women should be housewives, he was quite racist regarding brown skinned peopleâŚâŚ..
Iâm quite complaining about stuff. Itâs all a mystery, an adventure.
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That’s awfully nice of you to share a video of Von Franz after I mentioned how frustrating it was with my parents glorifying her, and yet not having the simple ability to relate to something not that mental, and she does address this notion of “depression” as a disease. That it isn’t. But beyond that, her whole analyses of how a community is built, or how Switzerland survives as a country…. It’s never the community as she describes it that gives a space for evolution, never has been, never will be, doesn’t work that way. It’s the one organism that deviates from such a matrix, that mutates, that does its own thing, that listens to its own voice, and it finds a whole other harmony beyond the strategical organization of “the community.” You can look at the community, say how it works, present all the cogs in the wheel, all the pieces coming together to make this machinery, and yet, it’s exactly the one piece that doesn’t “fit,” that moves away and does its own thing, it’s THAT piece that finds the link to adaptation to an environment that’s always changing, and is never going to warp creativity to what “the community” feel safe with. And it’s that piece that’s part of, and always has been, of a completely different harmony, calling that a community could be too limiting, given how that word is used.
Yeah, Von Franz, God bless her, is great for people that want to create mental constructs, enough bars to build a cage, that whatever they are saying stays put there……is made out to be perspective, insight, understanding, and perhaps for some people it works for themâŚ.. God Bless itâŚ..
But that’s what Plato (and it was his allegory, Socrates was an actor in it), was saying about the cave. It’s the voices telling people what the shapes on the wall are, it’s THOSE voices trying to make people feel safe that they âknowâ somethingâŚâŚ
Itâs quite silly of Von Franz to talk about how Switzerland doesnât fight war, when would one really look at the banking system, what Switzerland has to do with it, how all sides are funded, imprisoned in debt, and thus manipulated to keep the circle going by sociopaths controlling the banks, the corporations etc. Those people wouldnât even feel what Franz talks about as âholyâ suffering. To begin with they are product of a world that thinks it needs to train a certain crowd of people to fight their wars, to put people in jail, to punish via the judicial system: those people are TRAINED to turn off human empathyâŚ..
What kind of a magic is depression supposed to be, by the way? I talked to an uber driver, who out of nowhere simply stated: âIn Africa we donât have depression, no one is sad, if youâre sad you do somethingâŚ..â Iâve heard this so often, people wonder what youâre supposed to get out of sitting in a room talking about unpleasant things, and this will solve your âdepression.â In the meantime, the wind hasnât stopped blowing, because thereâs a variation of air pressure, this wafts clouds through the avenues in the air, and thereâs rain, and the plants grow. All while someone is locked up inside this little room being âdeepâ and having mental âperspective and insight,â building mansions and castles in âairâ they have such mental insightsâŚâŚâŚâŚ
It might actually being someone that becomes âun-rootedâ as Von Franz refers too, that actually instead sees the beauty of the flowers, still there, still part of home. And become part of nature, rather than living to get rewards from the system. And an âun-rootedâ or ârootlessâ community also would understand trauma enough that it wouldnât be like in a ârootedâ community where when someone is too different, THEY end up being the ones of whom it is decided that person is crazy. Itâs âthe communityâ that does that, and any trauma is too much it to deal with, would it expose these voices keeping them locked up and safeâŚâŚ.. When you instead show interest in the trauma, you see what it really is, rather than some necessary form of population control, and there wouldnât be this group of people trained to traumatize others, call it justice, or a means to an end, and perhaps THEN the wars, and the deceptions that they are necessary at all for societal harmony, THENâŚ. You might have a âcommunity.â And miracles would happens, and be natural and ânormal.â
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Again, this is amazing investigative work, and truly conscientious articulate exposing of data that should be exposed. But what is the basic premise? The basic premise is that “depression” is a disease that needs to be treated by medical intervention, and then we have the varying statistics regarding which method has the most remission. And it’s getting worse, but there remains no real articulate perspective on what we’re dealing with, regarding what this is. Is “depression” really a disease that needs medical intervention? What is a “disease” when it’s not medical, which depression hasn’t shown to be at all, so far, in reality, unless you call something medical and then as methods to treat this proceed in time there’s less remission. This is then medical? If we make it worse with our treatment, which we administer by calling it medical, is it then still legitimately a disease when everything gets worse because we called it a disease and keep on calling that while it snow balls into an epidemic? And what does it do to collective consciousness when people believe this label, does it help them understand what’s going on or they more and more paranoid regarding normal responses to life? Are they apt to be scared when they have a response that’s basically normal, and would play itself out with nature, or are they going to become alarmed and be controlled by fear, and end up being vulnerable to suggestion?
I’ve had two psychologists as parents, and both in ways remained oblivious to understanding the simple relationship there is with parenting, being a parent, and normal emotional interactions with your children. The kind of stuff parents who just are parents do so that their children can feel safe in making themselves vulnerable with their feelings, with their insights, with their thoughts, with their experiences, the simply normal stuff that goes on between human beings heralding what it is to be human. Instead the amount of high level analyzing, and diagnosing, and feeling like one is a hero by glamorizing anyone (well not anyone a specific few, a nice cherry picked group) making a victim out of themselves with a psychodrama…..Normal human interactions that create a healthy environment for emotional health are seen as disruptive, something they didn’t have time for, because they are so busy with psycho-dramas, so busy enabling a vulnerable person’s victimhood and using it as an excuse to not be what any normal parent would be in being what any child needs and in the meantime keeping their clients going round in circles, over analyzing and diagnosing situations, constructing mental labyrinths involving imagery via Von Franz or Jung or the other whose name I can’t remember, and building up castles in the air, this is glorified, and the people exploiting the vulnerabilities of others to attach to such philosophical, academic of “scientific” constructs when they are desperate for answers, they are made out to be superhumans. Although my parents never put me in an asylum, never had me forced drugged, but when I really needed someone to simply listen, and this lead to what it would lead with anyone, they then said they were worried about me becoming ward of the state. This AFTER, all I did was express what went on in my life that I couldn’t talk about, and my father threatened to call the police would I not shut up. This whole “societal” melange of diagnosis that say a person is disabled, they could use that as an excuse to not be parents, same as society denies what’s really going on, and social constructs the same as what define poverty or minority status these are then diseases making out that a person’s responses are signs of a disease, rather than cause and effect that might even determine what kind of a society it is, rather than what kind of a person it is. My mother had a client whose partner was a psychiatrist, who then had me diagnosed, actually filled with ideas that I thought something was going on that hadn’t been, when in reality all my mother or the psychiatrist would have to have done is as the neighbor lady, and she would have said the same thing she told me regarding what I’m not going to mention here. Again, just convenient dismissal regarding whether their diagnosis of their son was accurate or not, just avoid finding out whether what he’s going on about, and knew was going to happen beforehand really did. And it’s really scary realizing people are THAT locked up, and their basic ideas of what happens and what doesn’t is disabled. I for example thought I could talk to this psychiatrist, and she’d be able to listen, see that what had happened had happened, be professional regarding actually listening without prior disabling bias, and I should have been able to feel that, but no, I kept trying to fill this void, which wasn’t even so much a void, but some sort of vacuum that kept sucking out anything I might say into this area of diagnosis. As soon as it seems improbable, or goes against some programming or brainwashing, there comes the security they have that it’s not going on. The one thing being on disability did for me all these years was give me the space to be creative, to allow the arts to be healing, what their nature is. When I could have lost it, like the people you see “ranting and raving” on a street corner (the ones the New York mayor was trying to convince should all be put into an asylum https://www.ascendantny.com/involuntary-treatment-laws-in-new-york/ describing just that, the ones you’ve all seen at street corners), instead of trying to vent that way, I could go to a computer, with midi keyboard, and compose music, my mind, ears, heart, fingers, eyes, spirit, etc. had something to do, just to do, because I was alive, not because I had to fit into the system that was oppressing me…. that’s a great win for me, I could for my soul discover what art truly is as healing, I didn’t have to meet anyone’s idea of whether it fulfilled their desire to be entertained, as if it’s a drug an intoxication, but in the meantime, go to any museum, any concert hall, read any book, look at any poetry, the stuff that has survived time, the stuff that was created during the same struggles we have now that surround us every day, the stuff that shows what’s left over what remains, the beauty that was there the whole time, and you’ll find yourself in community with people that the mental health system has all used as example of having some mental health disease they could in this time fix up. Whole communities of psychiatrists with high paychecks, abilities to prescribe medications, offices ready, could lock those up who weren’t being treatment compliant, recite whole lengths of academic and philosophical analyses of what’s going on, spice this up with what kind of magic yet to be found chemical imbalance is going on, fix this with what’s proven after an interim of suppressing symptoms to make everything worse, and voila, just give us a time machine and we can fix up Beethoven for bipolar, Dickens for depression, and then people like Sylvia Plath, Camille Claudel, Josef Hassid, Nijinsky, Virginia Woolf, and all the others whose lives were ruined by the mental health system, they would be fixed up now too, although current treatment might have less success as well as being involved with causing an epidemic. But we have this hunt going on for what we haven’t found, we’re making headway, the brain is so illusive, we haven’t found it yet, in the meantime things have gotten much worse statistically, we’re actually causing chemical imbalance scientifically rather than healing it, but……..
Is this really a disease? When you listen to a Mozart symphony, when you watch a Shakespeare play, when you look at a painting of Frida Kahlo, stand in the Sistine Chapel do you think: “that person had a disease, let’s see what was wrong with them” or do you think something else was going on? Any of those people could end up in a present psychiatrist’s office and voila……
HOW predatory in reality is this to go on about some disease, for more than half a century have “cures” that with the statistics going on start at 15% don’t get better to then 97% don’t, those diagnosing in the beginning having started the whole wave of “diagnosis” associated with what ends up being a spike of mental health diseases in general (more names, more diseases, less healing), and to say anything about this one still has to go on about a disease, because that was the beginning? How predatory is this, actually? How predatory is this to keep condoning what started the whole scourge?
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Here https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ is the link for the article from mindfreedom pointing out that 1)They didn’t have true proof of a chemical imbalance then, and still don’t we can see now. That to prove this, they make reference to textbooks which say “medications” are a treatment, although the same textbooks say there is not proof the medications treat chemical imbalances. This was supposed to suffice as proof there’s a chemical imbalance, although the textbooks do the opposite. I don’t know whether the textbooks actually state how psychiatric medications CAUSE scientifically chemical imbalance that wasn’t there before, or that this is made out to be a cure of what they cause, because it disables the mind, although in the long term there’s then more of the problem. We are dealing with academics and how they are funded, but THEN already the very textbooks disprove the point the APA was trying to prove, but still the APA said the opposite.
Then, they went on about an increasing problem, again ignoring that they were scientifically condoning causing chemical imbalance (and it’s short term suppression of symptoms), as what needs to happen, rather than what statistics and science showed, in that it was part of the cause of the rise in the problem. And they stated terms like someone not conforming to statistical based norms, as being significant as something medical, rather than it is a sociological construct that also could define minority status, poverty, living in a war zone, etc.
And sorry, I had to mend this paragraph below, I’ve mended the holes with what’s inbetween the []’s… Sorry I hadn’t meditated yet, and all of this is like some sort of assault with confusion technique. AI makes this out of confusion technique: “The confusion technique is a hypnosis strategy that uses a series of contradictory suggestions to confuse and disorient the subject. The goal is to put the subject in a state of cognitive overload, which makes them more receptive to suggestions and more likely to enter a trance. ” , How is what’s going on here confusion technique? One way is it’s where assumptions are thrown at you, such as “common treatment is how something healed, if there’s a problem THAT is how you must treat it, because that’s what the authorities said to do to heal,” while disregarding the true science and statistics, and presenting instead the minority that would make out the benefit, or society would make out the benefit, while backing this up with not only corrupt statistics, but corrupted scientific statements. Or simply that something that is a normal response to life, and is actually part of natural intelligence is made out to be a disease, and one can only address the statistics of how a supposed treatment of it as a disease, that that isn’t working and causing problems [only if one lists it as a disease, regardless of whether it truly is], regardless of whether one is going on about a legit disease, to begin with. Or simply overloading someone with stuff that takes more scrutiny than one is capable of, one doesn’t know how to go about, scrutiny that is met with all sort of attempts at being made invalid or assaulted with ways it doesn’t meet any of the strongly held brainwashed assumptions people have been indoctrinated with, when people aren’t going to check their brainwashing, but assault one with more of what they don’t dare to question, as if you’re undermining their safety, when again you are doing the opposite given any perspective. And they know certain ideas have been brainwashed into the public at large, and anyone questioning said presumptions is going to be met with a mob mentality, and so they, maintaining such assumptions, start throwing all of those assumptions at you, as if they are true, even when they know they aren’t, just to make you feel overloaded…… “confusion technique”
My mending of the paragraph from the comment this is a reply to, because I noticed my mind was starting to become QUITE overloaded:
And then you had these amazing bubbles in the Prozac commercial (does Prozak with a C look better, as Prozac, rather than âProzakâ) which treat this unproven chemical imbalance, which the APA couldnât validate but tried to say there was proof by saying academic books that prove the opposite [that when they state there’s no proof that a chemical imbalance is being treated, this can be ignored when the book states that psychiatric drugs are treatment, even thought they have been proven to cause chemical imbalance], that [when] there is no proof contain[ed in] this proof [it is still proof because saying that a book which lists treatment based on proof that is said to exist but doesn’t is proof, even though the same book actually states there IS no proof] (although they still maintain what has been proven to not be scientifically verifiable treatment is how you treat, although itâs still made out to be scientific [when it hasn’t been made out to be scientific, but listing this as treatment means there is proof, regardless that there is no proof), or they maintain a stance going on about statistical based norms which defines poverty, minority status or living in a war zone as a disease: âhttps://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/â
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“Kraepelin” is the one that defined “schizophrenia” condoning the investment in “treatments” that ruined the lives of say Camille Claudelle, albeit further defining what she went through as a disease, when I wouldn’t think so, and know that heals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Claudel even wikipedia seems to agree with me on points. And then Virginia Woolf, who committed suicide rather than be reinstitutionalized…… Or then Alan Turing, Kraepelin saw homsexuality as a disease, as well: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18175635/ And I’m mentioning those two, Woolf and Turing, because how they resonated with my life, during my years of healing, and were there….. there IS something beyond all of that…..
This is where we’re at, using the statistics of someone who defined homosexuality as a disease, when his condoned treatment of “depression” has more remission than…..
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Not that I want to discount Robert Whitakerâs amazingly articulate research, at all. I probably would have rolled my eyes long ago and thought: WTF!? and stopped trying to even decipher peopleâs own goings on and dismissed it as nonsense. Seriously, Iâm not trying to discount at all Robert Whitakerâs amazing input, itâs just look, see, what one has to resort to to even respond to whatâs going on. Like: WOW!
This is where we are with this merry go round, to try to convince people making the 93% mark in not healing people (unless one takes 33% after they donât follow their own machinery of how itâs done), in order to make out what they said was a disease was a disease. Look heh, they are making this âdiseaseâ worse. We can point to before this more âmedicalâ method it was 15% werenât âhealedâ. NOW itâs 93%. But we are still going on about âa disease.â
What if a society defined someone not wanting to go to church, given that most people in that society are brainwashed regarding the afterlife being infinite eternal torture would they not, and this is then a disease, and subject to one of the two cures? In one case you have 93% not cured, although itâs made out to be 33% by various more than questionable meansâŚ. And in the other itâs 15% not cured. Does this still make it in either case a legit disease, and somehow, I donât see that Dean Schuyler and certainly not Kraepelin (who âdefinedâ âschizophreniaâ) as people who are going to by now have necessarily stopped the whole biological method from making the 93% mark in their attempt to make whatever out to be a disease. What about the 15%? And what are we really going on about? What if they defined say a sprained ankle as a disease, had convinced society of who knows what, such people end up in a âmedicalâ situation, and WOW only 15% arenât healedâŚ.. Somehow, to me that 15% hospitalized for âdepressionâ donât remit doesnât speak for THAT method being so amazing, although yeah, this isnât 97%. WHICH method shows, heh, this isnât working, and WHY is this not acknowledged!? If you go back to the older method it’s 15% don’t remiss, but was it ever a disease as diagnosed, and what about the 15%? And was that even really accurate?
When people with guns come and invade your land, steal it away from you, and your whole culture is suppressed, the very belief system that nurtured the genes that grow your amazing body, if this causes âdepression,â itâs seen as a disease. And then global warming wouldnât be going on were such beliefs honored, something affecting the whole planet, unless you want to rig or suppress results to make out this isnât going on, all sorts of diseases from pollution etc. etc. A society more and more mechanized and looking for stimulant from consumerism, and what one gets from causing global warming and polluting the planet, which is seen as some sort of gain, despite what it might do to future generations. Look see: âAlthough suicide was infrequent among North American Indigenous tribes prior to colonization, their suicide and suicide-related behaviors (e.g., ideation, suicide planning, and suicide attempts) have become a major public health concern.â https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2011-23063-016 From one frantic Internet search.
Thatâs just one example also, of such âdefinitions,â used just like that. Now itâs âmedical.â WTF!?
Iâm not even saying that this isnât a challenge to find that, heh, thereâs still something there worth wanting to live, beyond all of them making happiness out to be what they stole. God still exists, perhaps. Maybe you have a spirit that nothing can destroy, thatâs part of forever, and allowing that rather than sadness, or anger, or even trying to push sadness or anger away as if itâs a disease, and instead just feeling it, that this isnât more than what your ego says you needâŚâŚallowing the sadness, seeing it as a natural response might invoke natural intelligence and find solutionsâŚ..
Or not being able to get a good looking boyfriend to go to the prom: there used to be advertisement all over the TV, which I think is before the Internet so much, that social anxiety or insecurity can be âcuredâ by âantidepressants.â And then you had these amazing bubbles in the Prozac commercial (does Prozak with a C look better, as Prozac, rather than âProzakâ) which treat this unproven chemical imbalance, which the APA couldnât validate but tried to say there was proof by saying academic books that prove the opposite, that there is no proof contain this proof (although they still maintain what has been proven to not be scientifically verifiable treatment is how you treat, although it’s still made out to be scientific), or they maintain a stance going on about statistical based norms which defines poverty, minority status or living in a war zone as a disease: âhttps://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/â
If you donât have enough money to buy fashionable clothes, but the medical establishment will have your insurance fix you up with their antidepressant. What about selling the Brooklyn bridge to make people think they own something whether it’s there’s or whether it truly exists, as long as they don’t check whether it is or can be theirs for real? Does this PROVE poverty is a disease!?
But EXCUSE me WTF!?
If I see this as a disease, this method making it out such has 85 success rate (if I see it as a disease), it then gets worse when itâs dealt with more âscientificallyâ, according to those who donât follow science, the success rate actually adds up to 3% âscientificallyâ when you bend the rules that being scientific means just saying you are, but not following the rulesâŚâŚ and then itâs 67, which is still less than 85, although following the rules shows itâs 3%?
NOTE this is not some surrealistic exercise using a random generation of numbersâŚâŚ. Neither does it seem to be an attempt at being a humorous portrayal of CORRUPTION by making numbers out they are LEGITIMATE resultsâŚ
And Iâm REALLY not trying to dehumanize anyone that is having difficulty with depression, by ridiculing them⌠itâs just, perhaps thereâs another way, and this way leads towards healing. Maybe not being so scared to try something out of the box might help⌅
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There was interaction that this comment was difficult to understand, which I understand. So, I add…..
I heard this word in my mind: “reticulating,” whose meaning I didn’t know, but put it in knowing it would be descriptive, then had to look it up (if it wasn’t pertinent I would have removed it from my word processor file where I kept this comment). And so made a remark how this could be seen as “schizophrenic,” that I didn’t check myself. In order to point out the amount of thought we’re supposed to edit from being expressed because of such diagnosis. It also was hard to read the word âremitting,â used in a fashion which seems to be more about hiding that there wasnât remission, so was in reality was the opposite. I had to three times read those statements before I realized I was giving the word on the screen an opposite meaning, while knew what remission meant, my mind having put it as meaning the opposite, while I KNEW consciously what it meant, the whole time it being used in a way that in realityâŚ..
In my life, because things that really were going on, and actually happened involving psychic input, and that even when it showed I was seeing things before they happened, that I couldn’t talk about this, I couldn’t process this, and was “diagnosed,” which I’ve seen with others like me, as well. And it’s something Peter Breggin says about “schizophrenia,” you’ve had quite a few people on this site with articles stating similar things. Just about everyone read fictional novels, knows fairy tales, etc. but this isnât considered harboring tendencies towards âschizophreniaâ !?
Whether itâs simple stuff a person canât process they are going through, and the fictional ânon reality basedâ stuff they need to believe to allow it to be fictions, whether itâs this or whether itâs beyond that, and spiritual energyâŚâŚ.. there just might be something going on that functional rather than a disease.
Iâve never been diagnosed as being depressed, havenât even had any âfriendsâ go on interventions regarding me life, but then Iâm supposed to be socially backwards or something like that, so I donât have such hanging on around me with badges. The level at which a person is supposed to go on as if being sad in an unhealthy situation is a disease, as if nothing is going on to cause the reaction but a chemical imbalance they canât prove… as being confused in a situation so confusing that one NEEDS to have perspective in an inner world and the logical response for this is called “non reality based” because same as fiction it has meaning when allowed to express a perspective on life (or beyond that involves senses that aren’t relating to the physical but to a spiritual source), or one can’t “concentrate” and reproduce data that’s really more an attempt to brainwash a person, again would a health perspective be given, or that the environment in itself doesn’t induce the ability to concentrate, or that a person isn’t interested nor really in the long run needs to be. ThusÂ
Schizophrenia, Depression ADHD and what else, that we are supposed to put in a jail cell saying they are malevolent things, when the whole process of them being accused of such isn’t really all that logical or founded perhaps, if at all..⌠is just to hide what? What if they were free to express themselves, or âGod forbidâ encouraged to for reasons of enlightenment or perspectiveâŚ..
Locking everyone up who isnât fearful of something, is this going to make everyone else fearful of it, regardless of whether thereâs a reason to allow some freedom instead rather than fear?
Why is fear so worshiped? Be scared of yourself, you have a disease. Isnât that mind control 101, make people believe they are under attack?
And you maintain a society where fear is a necessary ingredient for deterrent, and fear is instilled through trauma, whether itâs the penal system, the medical system, wallstreet and the paycheck, grades in school, religions going on about Hell or who knows what (militaries with enough weaponry to kill all human life on the planet more than 20 times over to make sure the enemy would be dead in whatâs called overkill), people are going to be so controlled by fear, they donât know what it is to be human anymore and basic impulses of compassion are made out to be a disease and ANYTHING out of the box is âcrazyâ⌅and you have these people called âsociopaths,â running so much of the system, because YOU believed you needed people able to use fear to control human behavior, and THAT is where it leads.
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âMoreover, while the abstract of the November report told of a cumulative remission rate of 67%, the discussion section of the paper revealed that this was, in part, a made-up number. The researchers had theorized that if those who had dropped out had remained in the study through all four stages of treatment, they would have remitted at the same rate as those who hadnât dropped out, and they added these imagined remissions to their tally of patients who had gotten well. Without these imaginary remissions, the reported remission rate in the November 2006 paper would have been around 50%.â
I had to read this three times before I realized that remission means it gets better, rather than the other, added to this, when it supposedly wouldnât have gotten better, given theâŚ.. then itâs what they say got better, and being better (According to them( is actually worseâŚâŚ
Itâs kind of hard to read a statement when the word âremissionâ means the opposite, and you know this from experience, but are still supposed to actually read it for what itâs meant to mean, when itâs wrongâŚ..
âIn a 2010 paper, Pigott and colleagues also made sense of the graphic representing the one-year results. Of the 4,041 patients who entered the trial, only 108 had remitted and then stayed well and in the study to its one-year end, a documented stay-well rate of 3%. All of the others had either never remitted, remitted and then relapsed, or dropped out of the study. This was an outcome that was quite at odds with the 67% âcumulative remission rateâ being touted to the public as evidence of the effectiveness of antidepressants.â
Of those who dropped out, how much got better, itâs like more than 3% or not?
It becomes something what THIS MUCH effort it put into what doesnât work, even exposing that it doesnât work then becomes more reticulating in order to make out: âsee, someone doesnât like us, they will always rebel, weâre right because those good for nothings donât like itâŚ.â
Anybody that gets upset about being lied to is of courseâŚ..
Note, I didnât know what reticulating meant when putting it in above statement, I had a âpsychoticâ impulse to believe that something whose meaning I didnât consciously know had pertinence, I allowed my uncontrolled psychotic impulses to make me think that I could just put that word in and look it up later, to see WHY I had heard it out of nowhere, not negating that something heard in my mind, when I didn’t consciously know what it meant and thus was unconstructed thought by the conscious mind, should be discarded as non reality based:
Reticulate, definition according to âOxford languagesâ is: âdivide or mark (something) in such a way as to resemble a net or network.
“the numerous canals and branches of the river reticulate the flat alluvial plain”
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Sorry, in my rant, I….
“nor is it solved by only hiring people to solve the problem that are going to do only that, and will question that itâs solving the problem while itâs causing more of it.” should read
nor is it solved by only hiring people to solve the problem that are going to do only that, and won’t question whether itâs solving the problem while itâs causing more of it.
I’m sorry, it’s difficult to simply keep track of all of the indoctrinated behavior….z
And, in thinking about this one line, prior: I pondered how this is like manufacturers making products that are designed, on purpose, to break down after a period of time, so you have to buy a new one, or manufactured obsolescence. I was wondering how many medications where there’s proof they treat some sort of chemical imbalance, that there was something the tests could determine was missing, and that these medications correlated with causing that chemical to again be present. I mean, there must be all sorts of chemical processes going on where one can find there’s this one thing missing, but when you introduce a medication that introduces what’s missing, the medications causes a whole series of side effects. So, I did a search with this: “medications that treat chemical imbalances but have side effects that are worse than no treatment” and what were most of the google results!? They are about psychiatric medications, which have NOT been proven to treat a chemical imbalance, but instead cause one, which is then seen as healing because it disables the mind, although in the long term things get worse, thus the spike in the problem current. And most of the hits were “promoting” this theory that hasn’t been proven, that psychiatric drugs treat chemical imbalances.
This is quite something, that when I do a search involving “chemical imbalances” one mostly gets hits that spout the same theories that have been proven to instead of treating a chemical imbalance are causing one, and more problems in the end, and is called therapy. Hit after hit after hit. And I was looking to see what kind of medications that scientifically actually can be said to treat a chemical imbalance might have side effects that cause serious problems. I mean, if there’s a chemical imbalance, there’s all sorts of ways to change one’s behavior, one’s diet, one’s responses etc. and the body itself is AMAZING and can make all sorts of changes itself, and start re-balancing itself, without the problem of a medication intruded into the process and perhaps causing more of one chemical deemed to be missing, while in the process causing all sorts of side effects that point out it’s better to do things that get the body or spirit itself to re-balance what’s going on. That kind of myopic behavior. So, I did a search for medications proven to treat chemical imbalances, not one promoted as doing such but doing the opposite and causing one, and apparently this catch phrase “chemical imbalances,” referring to “medications” that cause such rather than treating such, this has become so ingrained that……. it’s like the word “therapy,” when used. People are THAT brainwashed. THAT triggered.
The same with: “chemical imbalance,” or “chemical imbalance symptoms,” a whole splurge of hits showing how the words “chemical imbalance” have been corrupted. In fact, when people have normal emotional responses to life, responses that when given a bit of legroom might give needed perspective, or with proper help could be understood so a person has a heightened understanding of themselves, they are during these times made to believe something is going on while the “treatment” that is billed as healing: it actually scientifically and statistically proves to cause it…….
Thanks to the incredible work of Moncrieff, though, there is one hit that says the following, hit number six for me: “Patients should be informed that there is no evidence that antidepressants work by correcting a chemical imbalance, that antidepressants have mind-altering …”
“I want to help,” “Do this!” But don’t question whether that is really helping because it has an exclamation point. That DOESN’T mean it’s so critical that you can negate whether what you’re doing is really helping. I feel so sorry for ANYONE ever having to deal with a system that is making them worse while they have to act as if it’s making them better, can’t say how it’s really affecting them, can’t know it’s not really helping, can’t even question whether it’s really helping. And are made terrified of non violent normal responses to trauma, or a difficult situation the brain is trying to gain perspective on, while they are forced to believe or act like they believe that…..
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Reading this article, one could become quite hysterical the amount of times the word “therapy” is used in order to point out what?
If it statistically correlates with less recovery, a whole spike in the problem it’s said to heal (something one might call an epidemic), then WHY is it called therapy: “Here take this, and go there, it statistically causes more of the problem, and then you’ll get more therapy for the therapy, and……..
You know, I think it’s called “brainwashing” actually.
Try: more “therapy” is not the answer and put “it” in italics.
Or simply: “More Brainwashing doesn’t make something that’s not working work,” and then somewhere add, “although there’s more of the problem needing therapy, this doesn’t mean that the ‘therapy’ that was implemented, was supposed to work, which instead caused more of the problem, not only does this point out it caused more of the problem, you can not separate this from needing more ‘therapy’ and deny there’s a causal link, while making out what statistically and scientifically correlates with more of the problem is going to fix it just because it’s called ‘therapy’ and is the mainstream approach.”
That’s ALSO brainwashing 101, make people believe they are being attacked, and then spoon feed them how to fix the problem, and you have control over them. That ISN’T therapy that’s deceiving people. No matter HOW BAD the problem has become it is NOT going to be fixed with what’s in correlation with CAUSING it. No matter HOW MUCH one has the need to BELIEVE on is doing something, and then just do what one is told to do, when this isn’t fixing the problem no matter how much one is told it will, it still WILL NOT. NOT even if the problem seems to go away temporarily. Not even when you disable the brain with “medications” CAUSE chemical imbalance, while telling people they treat them, because this promotes the idea that suppressing the expression of the problem is a cure, then science and statistics has shown the problem does not go away, but in the majority of cases gets worse. When there’s a problem that needs to be looked at regarding what DOES help it, this isn’t solved by suppressing being able to express there’s a problem. When there’s a warning signal, and you cut the wires to the warning signal, that doesn’t mean what it was manufactured to point out has gone away. And when there’s more of the problem this ISN’T solved by having more “authority” to cut the wires for more warning signals pointing out the problem, nor is it solved by only hiring people to solve the problem that are going to do only that, and will question that it’s solving the problem while it’s causing more of it.
People that don’t understand trauma, or who don’t understand that there’s a whole part of reality that can solve that trauma (so maybe it’s not trauma, it’s just a challenge), but the solution isn’t following the “rules” of said society, whether it’s economic, spiritual, political or the rest of it……… people who don’t understand and offer solutions that don’t work for those who don’t want to be deceived (whether that’s conscious or subconscious) this isn’t a solution for people actually wanting answers……
Yeah, in the article “therapy” is used 12 times it seems. And this isn’t a fill in the blank test meaning replace that blank: “therapy” with SOMETHING ELSE!
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Dogworld, well that sounds like a bunch of concepts put together to sound like they mean something. “This is that” just fill in the blank with this and that, and then. But it could also be “whatever:” new chance to add something, so they might not actually look at whether this is that. Make sure you add something, to make it sound well thought out, so that no one looks at how you began this “smorgasborg,” and then add something else. “sometimes that isn’t this, and thus “other-variant” can linger on (oh, yeah, we always are concerned about something else lingering on…..forgot about that, thank you, also for distracting me from ever looking to see whether this was that to begin with). Just fill in the blank for: “this,” “that,” “whatever,” and “othervariant,” and find a name for your “smorgasborg,” calling it a disease (trauma, schizophrenia, etc.) and viola: you’re scientific!
Oops, but this response of not being able to take it seriously anymore, lingers on…. is that because of “othervariant?”
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I’m sorry, but I find this quite typical, that when one starts [reading] what a dream would be, it begins with “To understand the language of dream we need to understand the concept of metaphor.” WHO is dreaming? Are we to be told how to understand our own dreams!? This is quite typical of psychology, or therapy: this is that, rather than sharing what would be objective which would be a person’s own experience with how they understood their own dreams, RATHER than going on about others, and what’s what there, and how this person isn’t a danger, but still not reality based. A whole school going on about “schizophrenia” when to have such “objectivity,” you can’t have experienced exactly “that” enough to take it in [what it REALLY is] you can’t have actually experienced what it is by being brainwashed regarding what you’ve been through to see it as something SOMEONE ELSE tells you as to what it is.
And then the “economic” side, where AGAIN, all those having experienced this real “dream” this “schizophrenia” and having understood it can speak that language, and have survived DESPITE everything. No, we can’t have those “unauthorized” people stepping in and interfering with our brainwashing, those that can speak out of experience. Makes me wonder whether there are more âschizophrenicsâ than âpsychiatrists and psychologists,â simply as to who actually knows what this is, having experienced it. Let alone youâre dowsed down with âmedicationsâ you might not like, if youâre even allowed to not like them, they donât statistically in the end correlate with ârecovery,â which you arenât allowed to know either: what yourself, your soul, subconscious, unconscious, past lives, whatever thatâs ânon reality basedâ talking to you, youâre not ALLOWED to see that as real, but are given freedom when you label it as âschizophrenia,â even stuff that went on in your life with open eyes, but they wonât believe. But no, thereâs no government program with martians, or whoever and whatever when ANYONE has to try to navigate through WHAT THE BLEEP is going on, CIA surveillance, FBI surveillanceâŚ.. but fine, if you have this highly constructed mental idea of what it is, and it remains safe enough for us[âthemâ] to not be exposed as not really knowing what we’re [theyâre] going on about, here’s a paycheck. But don’t say you’re a”schizophrenic-dreamer” yourself, and certainly don’t actually share it if you are, STAY OBJECTIVE, as in here: “Now, by no means do I suggest accepting this story as reality. Clearly, this man was not a victim of some secret government-Martian collaboration, and it would ultimately be harmful to encourage this kind of thinking. Yet for this particular individual, these events were his reality, and refusing to acknowledge that such a subjective realityâhowever odd it may beâcan exist would be equally harmful. The optimal position, then, would be to treat the situation symbolically, like we would a dream.”
Is it a non reality based dream to think that you need to wear clothes if you go out in public in the US? Or is this reality based? When arrested for [this] not believing in this “non reality based dream” does this validate it as reality!? Someone walking around naked, as when they were born, this is going to be a detriment to society, should be suppressed, that person arrested, and this is NO DREAM, itâs REAL, it could damage peopleâs consciousness, destroy societal harmony were naked people walking around! From THERE to a whole barrage of nonsense we all are subjected to regarding what’s real and what isn’t, and here someone in an institution can’t think WHAT without it being dissected, but leave the rest alone, that’s statistical based norms, etc. Let’s believe that someone going on about martians is not reality based, lock him up, dope him up, but don’t bring up ridiculous social rules that are so ingrained you’re “crazy” and lacking “insight” do you not follow them.
ANYONE having briefly looked in an open minded and articulate way into secret government programs and alien technology would KNOW there are parts of the government looking to harness stuff they see going on from UFOs etc. but what I understand, and those involved with such technology, without the problem of wanting to harness it to say war machinery, they say such technology as part of the Universe only works when a person has let go of fear in their life, which isnât going on with a âgovernmentâ that nurtures fear, coercion and the ability to destroy as a means to control in a way they make out is social harmony. And so that could be absolutely much more true what this supposed ânon reality based metaphor dreamerâ is going on about than whoever is deciding: âClearly, this man was not a victim of some secret government-Martian collaboration, and it would ultimately be harmful to encourage this kind of thinking.â I think that the âMartiansâ would they have such technology would be too advanced to go along with the âgovernmentâsâ way of wanting to harness it, nor even that itâs possible, but this doesnât exclude the governmentâs attempts, along with the rest of the ways the try to âharnessâ the minds and lives of people. And for ANYONE sensitive enough to somehow pick up on such stuff, I donât think that more patronizing such as: âoh, youâre a good person, just a little sick, itâs your reality but we canât see it as anything but your own subjective reality, a dream youâre having, although itâs reality we canât condone,â this is going to do WHAT!? No area 51 doesnât exist etc.
SORRY, but I get so tired an infuriated to read these well meant attempts to help others when to begin with:
1) Youâve not been through this yourself, had whatever going on in your life where the only way to gain perspective was endeavoring to believe in stuff OTHERS decided was non reality based and that it would be bad to condone as reality, WHILE they every day obey all sorts of social constructs that are so off that everyone is mostly basically SCARED to even rationally bring up questioning them.
2) And if anybody HAS had such experiences, theyâre likely to be given no voice, put down further than second rung, while being beaten down and suffocated with more criteria regarding: âwell it goes this way, and keep your clothes on if youâre in public, but if you see someone actually naked, keep in mind it could be the emperor, and his clothes are really there, theyâre just invisible, but YOU arenât the emperor, so keep yours on, you donât HAVE invisible clothes.
Hint: not wearing clothes being either the emperor or someone lacking insight is a âmetaphorâ for societyâs thinking, I havenât yet myself had experience with any emperor walking around with invisible clothing, not even in a dream; although if youâre in an asylum, and you have to say you believe what they tell you to get out despite knowing better, you might just actually say you do, akin to saying that the emperor is wearing clothes, because otherwise you remain locked up. And donât feel bad if you actually believe it for awhileâŚ. That might be a sort of withdrawal symptomâŚ.
What I have experienced is that dreams go WAY beyond metaphors, how anyone could go on about dreams and not have had precognitive ones…. Jung included! Not everyone lives in such âsafeâ environments⌅
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